Some rules that stuck out looking thru book

If a challange is issued and refused the person that issues the challage choose who goes to the back rank and you lose all his advatages say a battle standard that refuses could screw things up. Also if there is no back rank they have to take the challage. pg 77

Shooting into a unit that has a character in it that has less then 5 models the shoots are evenly spread out and the left overs are random on what they hit. pg74

Units that are stubborn or are using a banner and so forth only can use there leadership. They can use the character ldr ship with the res. modifers if that would be better tho. pg 78

these were some of the things thtat poped out at me looking thru the rule book again, you play so much that you kinda never really pick it up much when you are playing with the same group all the time.

I think that is why I had such a great time with the one game that I got to play with one of you from down there.

KKK
HBSB
H
HKKKKK
H HHSHHH
H

K = Knight
H = Fleshhound
S = Skulltaker
BSB = WoC BSB

Here is a tricky on that Stephen and I faced.

Stpehen threw his BSB into a multi unit combat between hounds and Knights.

Skulltaker issued a challenge (as required) and the BSB was Stephen's only hero.

By rule, they are both in base to base contact with the same combat.
By rule, the BSB has no ranks to hide behind.

Does the BSB need to accept or do the 2 heros units need to be in base to base (with each other) for the challenge to go?
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Responses from the UK faithful indicate the challenge is valid.
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=64374&p=788778#p788778

Nothing with Skulltaker in it should be valid

But yes, you are correct, they are both involved in the same combat, no need to be base to base.

NOT true. (I disagree!)

While the heroes are both involved in the same COMBAT, they're UNITS are not in base to base with each other. Thus, they can't duke it out.

At least, thats how I see it.

That's incorrect Dan
We played it right

Yeah, to issue he need only be fighting in combat base-to-base (not necessarily the unit with champion).

I tend to remember the rules for Stubborn quite well as I liked to take units like Greatswords for the Empire and Hammerer's for the Dwarves. Though I rarely ever use a hero's leadership instead... usually when I have to take a leadership check I usually suffered some for of modifier.

The effects of a character refusing a challenge have been brought up a lot as of late... I think that is partly because of how many people take characters like battle standard bearers or other unit bolstering characters and we all just seem to like declaring challenges anyways.
So paying attention to the key importance of losing the effect of a hero or battle standard has become very significant (and many times a key tactical maneuver).

Also it was rare that I ever saw a character in a unit of only 5 models... but then from what I've been told many people have been using minimum sized units of elite cavalry and such a little bit more often as of late as well.


As to Bill's comment on the challenges, others have already answered, but I guess I'll add to it.
It does clearly state that a character needs to be in base to base contact with an enemy model in order to declare or accept a challenge (keep that in mind as well).

In the case of multiple combats it does not specifiy whether or not a character must be touching a unit which contains another character, just that he/she must be touching an enemy. So in that case I would say that as long as the character issuing the challenge was touching at least one of the units in the combat (whether it has a character in it or not) he/she could issue a challenge to one of the enemy characters in the overall combat.

The WoC BSB was in bas to base, as was Skulltaker.

They just were not in base to base with each other's units.

The BSB actually entered the 4 unit multi-combat last and solo. It was all elite cav, nobody had any ranks.

====================

The challenge and stubborn rules have come up because of the 'Ard Boyz scenarios we played. The first was kill the BSB, who was stubborn for free. The other was kill the general, so many challenges took place.

I think the key to the challage when it comes to those that do want there BSB to take have the champion take it. It at least buys you one round of combate.

With the 4 models and characters it seems it is used more with WOC and some dark elfs that put them with there calv.

The Stuburn I relized really can take some of the effects of the deamon banner that gives them it 12 inches. But them not able to use there generals ldrship softens it up some.

Are there any other off the norm things that any of you have noticed in the rules.

I was just looking at the GW sight errata files and some some other stuff if a mage has a spell that is remains in play and uses a bound item the spall goes away. Did not know that also you are only allowed one bound item a character.

Hey, Gary,

I was reading the Brettonian rules and I was surprised to see the rules about what happens if a character refuses a challenge.

Remember when priscilla offered a challenge to your double lance of knights that charged her? According to the rules, once you refused that challenge, BOTH lances of knights should have lost the Lady's blessing.

That means that the protracted combat on the side of the board would have ended a lot sooner because you made a BUTT load of 5 + saves for your knights in that combat that you shouldn't have had.

If I had won those combats, the game may have gone quite differently.

Ah well... we live and learn.

This is true about the Bret rules, when 1 person refuses a challenge, everybody involved loses the blessing.

And I guess I stand corrected about the challenge part, though it seems strange that he can take a challenge but can't strike the models in that unit, see what I mean?

You are right I should have lost ward save on one unit the unit that you challanged. I am sorry about that. the sad thing I was taking away my ward saves in the other 2 games for fleeing and so forth. That would have changed a great deal in that battle.

Garry

I am not bring them to the next round I just do not know the army well enough to pull out wins. Again I am sorry about that with the ward saves I really do feel like a jerk not playing my army right. I really enjoyed the game we had it was a very tactical game.

Bretonnians are great!

No problemo man... the main thing was that we had fun . and I still get to go to the second round..

You going to paly WOC second round.

I am think Vampire Counts or maybe Dark Elf or Skaven