The New Rules for Warmachine

I was wondering what does everyone think of the new rules?

I have talk to Gab and Art, but I would like to hear from all of the other Warmachine players to get a very broad source on this subject.

How do you like the new rules that Privateer Press put out? Do you think they did a good job on responding to the needs of the players/customers? Is the game more balanced? How does this make you feel towards Privateer Press, do you like the company more for the actions they took? Do you feel better about starting or continuing to support this company.

The reason I ask all of these questions is I believe Privteer is good company the makes a good product, at a fair price. This shows it is possible to run a successful company without screwing the customer. I sure a lot of people think I am negative about the gaming industry, but really it is just towards ONE company. I think I am acurate.

But I really like to be fair at all times and just want to gather as many facts as possible on this subject, as the gaming comunity and the hobby do take up most of my free time and money and it is important to me at present.

Thanks in advance for you input.

JerryB

I never have been a fan of Privateer Press as a company, though I was big supporter of Monsterpocalypse and ran many events for that back in W&P, but so far I think their new approach to the rules has been improved. The company though is still run by pompous assholes, and not in the sense that they are trying to screw the customer base, but that they just do come off as arrogant pricks.

Warmachine to me was a game that was in need of revamp for years. It's ironic how almost everything that is being fixed in MKII, is the stuff I moaned about years ago and everyone was like "nah, the game is perfect". The whole machine aspect of the game was quickly abandoned in favor of larger armies and heavy reliance of infantry. This was not my draw to Warmachine... it was the MACHINE part of the warmachine.

Hordes itself was a more refined game than WM, the synergy of the rules just made more sense, which is nice to see some ideas of Hordes slip into MKII WM.

Their products to me are hit and miss.. I enjoyed monsterpocalypse, preferred hordes of WM.... the Grind Board Game they put out was pretty piss poor, their card games were also very lame. Their paints are about as much of a rip off as GW's, when you can get a superior product from so many other sources like Reaper or simple stuff from a model store.

As for pricing, PP is nothing special on the pricing front and after years and various price increases, their models had gotten pretty pricey. One full unit of cavalry can still run you $120+ for example, and some of the individual models just where getting out of hand. In many cases they are no better than GW (and really GW is not even close to being one of the most expensive games or mini manufacturer on the market), though of course they also have the benefit of an army for their games usually not requiring as big an initial investment.... but of course with their release structure, people are constantly finding themselves having to buy more as expansions add new awesome units that affect the meta game, unlike games with set armies that don't change for years.

I will give them credit for how they have handles the MKII transition even though it did so some pack peddling... such as selling individual army codex books which they said they wouldn't do in the past, of course they also back peddled on the whole plastic miniatures thing too. But no doubt the money and needs to compete is making them see change is needed.

I will support them with my occasional purchases.. though don't know if my opinion means anything with the sheer amount of games I support.....

But I can pick a bone with any company, I don't find anyone of them to be perfect, with me having some very negative feelings towards some even though I do support their products still.

I have picked up a few models of Hordes and played a couple of games. I don't know the old rules, but the current ones I read are pretty good. My only issue is the double-standard with measuring.

So, I can't pre-measure.

BUT

I can measure my Control radius with my Warcaster/Warlock WHENEVER I feel like.

But you can't pre-measure... ?


Other then that, I think the rules are pretty straight forward and good. I like the fact that you have to do everything with a model/unit before moving on, as it makes think much more about the order of things.

I don't think WM/H improves on the problems of most GW games. It's just a different core ruleset. The turn sequence is still unbalanced (one player does everything while the other watches for 20 minutes) and they powercreep the new models (to generate sales). The whole MKII is designed to catch the old (mostly mechs) up with the new (more sqauds).

I was more interested in Malifaux, which seems to combind some WM/H rules (and cyberpunk stuff) with the toggle of player control seen in WoTR and other games (Frantic and Kyle can throw some names here for me).

The cards also expand the random numbers beyond 1-6, which opens things up. Models look cool. Cheap starter sets. I think you'd like Malifaux Jerry.

The powercreep has always been obvious even though hardcore fans like to attempt and ignore it. Always found it funny how the game lines of WM/H have tons of models which never see play. The game is smaller in scope compared to some other games and with them constantly adding new stuff, the power creep becomes more apparent as models easily get retired by something else.

Even in the MKII rule discussions it was brought up often how yea they fixed some units, but changes basically are just going to change the meta and now other models are going to get left on the shelf instead. When I played I had two armies for WM that I started back when the game first premiered, over the years I ended up with alot of figs that would never leave the case since they just were.... shit. Same is going to happen with MKII and people on the official forum are already shelving stuff and switching to the new obvious meta.

It sticks out more with WM/H because of how they release the game and like I said already, the limited scale of the game. Your build options are limited so you are going to always attempt to take the optimum figs in these games.

The new rules still don't fix one of my biggest issues with the game system though, which is that players have no consequence on their own turn. You can have your entire army walk up to most enemies and just do as they please with no player interaction on the other side. Turns in WM/H basically are very decisive because of this. Attacking is based on a static value which is easy to overcome through simple planning.

As ShadowMaster mentions Malifaux for example, both players participate in combat, your figures just don't stand their waiting, your both actually dueling and you can affect the results or help with defense. INFINITY which I have talked up before is another example as EVERY action in the game can be met with a player reaction. An enemy shoots at you.... do you return fire, try to dodge, jump behind cover, go prone, yell out a warning to others on your team, etc. Anima Tactics is also another game that has very interactive turn, though it is played with alternating activations of models between players, players have full control and many options to take while opponent goes. These games overall feel much more fresh and exciting than either of PP or GW's products.

But on the whole GW Vs. Such and Such game, it's always such a difficult thing especially when your dealing with such different games, scales, and styles.

Alternating activations - I think that is the key.

WM/H would be WAY more interesting if you toggled activations between players.

I'll have to take another look at Infinity.

Alternating activations is not needed for all games really, but yes Warmachine and Hordes with alternating activations would be a MUCH better game. Right now the games are some of the most static in nature in the industry when your opponent is taking his or her turn.

If your not going to have alternating activations, you should have some form of active participation and strategy involved during your participation at least.

Bill as I said earlier I am really interested in Malifaux that turn system seems the most fair to me. Also the models are sweet. It might be a good idea to see if anyone else is interested.