8th ed and where we stand
+6
luis the young
Ovich
scurrdi
ShadowMaster
Diosamblet
Dakai
10 posters
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8th ed and where we stand
Over that past few months we have all had a chance to play 8th and all have tired out different armies of ours and of others. So i would like to see who we all feel about it and how it effects our armies and play style as a community.
I will start. When i first looked at the rule set i though they where complete rubbish, but after playing a few games i found that my option on this edition had changed. I still find it to be a watered down version of WFB. It is easier for new people now to get into the game which is plus. I am waiting to see how the next handful of army books are going to work in this new edition before i make my total judgement. My only displeasure is with these 3 things, True Line of sight, how charges work, and how easy it is to get off an Irresistible Force. I will not go into how i would like to see this change cause that is the not the point of this post. lol
As for my armies well let me go thru the list.
Lizardmen- My first army, they have never seems to suck in any edition sense i started playing. This edition i feel has made my saurus heavy themed army more of a force to be reckoned with.
Night Goblins- They are still fun but now they have new set of head aches. All of the extra random rules added on to an already random army is something that i just cannt get my head around. I will be shelving them till i see the new book. Should it be crap then it goes on the selling block.
Dark Elves- My old list is seeming to be the norm which i find rather comical. But with the importance of rock hard infantry they lose out to the high elves once again. I will hold on to a core 2,000 points and place it on a shelf. The rest is currently up for sale
Warriors of Chaos- just like my lizardmen.....no complaints. So looking forward to having a blocks of 30-40 chaos warriors!!!!!!!!!!! The new rule set did helped them in a big fucking way
Empire- I have played a few games with my empire and have enjoyed them. With my style of play i feel that they have gotten a massive boost in power and combat effectiveness. But at the end of the day they are still humans with crappy armour saves so what you going to do.
-that is my view-
I will start. When i first looked at the rule set i though they where complete rubbish, but after playing a few games i found that my option on this edition had changed. I still find it to be a watered down version of WFB. It is easier for new people now to get into the game which is plus. I am waiting to see how the next handful of army books are going to work in this new edition before i make my total judgement. My only displeasure is with these 3 things, True Line of sight, how charges work, and how easy it is to get off an Irresistible Force. I will not go into how i would like to see this change cause that is the not the point of this post. lol
As for my armies well let me go thru the list.
Lizardmen- My first army, they have never seems to suck in any edition sense i started playing. This edition i feel has made my saurus heavy themed army more of a force to be reckoned with.
Night Goblins- They are still fun but now they have new set of head aches. All of the extra random rules added on to an already random army is something that i just cannt get my head around. I will be shelving them till i see the new book. Should it be crap then it goes on the selling block.
Dark Elves- My old list is seeming to be the norm which i find rather comical. But with the importance of rock hard infantry they lose out to the high elves once again. I will hold on to a core 2,000 points and place it on a shelf. The rest is currently up for sale
Warriors of Chaos- just like my lizardmen.....no complaints. So looking forward to having a blocks of 30-40 chaos warriors!!!!!!!!!!! The new rule set did helped them in a big fucking way
Empire- I have played a few games with my empire and have enjoyed them. With my style of play i feel that they have gotten a massive boost in power and combat effectiveness. But at the end of the day they are still humans with crappy armour saves so what you going to do.
-that is my view-
Dakai- Dark Apostle
- Number of posts : 392
Registration date : 2008-04-17
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
I've played a few games here in Japan against a WoC army with my lizzies, and I don't find the random charge distances or TLoS to be much of a problem. Then again neither of us have tried out long-shot charges, nor do we have cannons or the like which really benefit from seeing through forests etc.
I obviously need to play with and against more armies, but so far it hasn't been a huge difference from 7th.
One thing I have enjoyed is the removal of unit strength and the addition of +1 CR for charging. It meant that by charging a tzeentch sorc. lord on disk with terradons and skinks I was getting +1 for charge and +1 for flank. He then failed to kill more than one skink and lost by 1, and got run down
I obviously need to play with and against more armies, but so far it hasn't been a huge difference from 7th.
One thing I have enjoyed is the removal of unit strength and the addition of +1 CR for charging. It meant that by charging a tzeentch sorc. lord on disk with terradons and skinks I was getting +1 for charge and +1 for flank. He then failed to kill more than one skink and lost by 1, and got run down
Diosamblet- Primarch
- Number of posts : 672
Registration date : 2008-03-06
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
Over-correction would be the term I would use.
Anything outside of big infantry blocks is now religated to pure supportive roles. You see much less monsters and "cool stuff" in most competitive lists.
Sorcs on discs are cannon fodder.
Anything outside of big infantry blocks is now religated to pure supportive roles. You see much less monsters and "cool stuff" in most competitive lists.
Sorcs on discs are cannon fodder.
ShadowMaster- Chaos God
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Number of posts : 2812
Age : 55
Location : Pembroke Pines
Armies : [WHFB] DoC, Lizardmen, O&G [LoTR] Moria [40k] Daemons [WM/H] RoS, Cryx, Cygnar, Mercs, Gators, Skorne
Registration date : 2008-03-26
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
I tend to agree that a lot of the 'non-infantry' units are off to the sides now, perhaps it's better that way since infantry are supposed to be core, but as a cavalry player, I miss it a bit.
scurrdi- Chaos God
- Number of posts : 2520
Registration date : 2008-03-04
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
Points costs are suppost to balance units, not rules. That's why a bloodthirster is 450 base points, because he is equal to 37 Bloodletters or 112 Night Gobos, etc.
While low and unranked units can win combat, they can no longer break units often enough to be reliable to win with. Mix that with the exposed point loss to a single (now super accurate) war machine shot and you suddenly need to leave too many cool models at home on tourney day.
Greater Daemons
Dragons
War Alters
Stanks
Scream Bell
Plague Furnace
Carnisaur
Steggys
Chariots
I'll say it again. Over-correction. They probably learned it from Mythic.
While low and unranked units can win combat, they can no longer break units often enough to be reliable to win with. Mix that with the exposed point loss to a single (now super accurate) war machine shot and you suddenly need to leave too many cool models at home on tourney day.
Greater Daemons
Dragons
War Alters
Stanks
Scream Bell
Plague Furnace
Carnisaur
Steggys
Chariots
I'll say it again. Over-correction. They probably learned it from Mythic.
ShadowMaster- Chaos God
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Number of posts : 2812
Age : 55
Location : Pembroke Pines
Armies : [WHFB] DoC, Lizardmen, O&G [LoTR] Moria [40k] Daemons [WM/H] RoS, Cryx, Cygnar, Mercs, Gators, Skorne
Registration date : 2008-03-26
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
the random charge range has made things rather difficult with my goblins.
@bill i was not speaking from a tourney day mind set. I was talking about an overall feel. but hey i can respect where you coming from. How do you think this edition has effected you style of play and list building? that was the point of this thread lol.
@Matt. It is kick ass that you have been able to get games in japan. Sadly it is only against warriors
On a side note now looking over the Beastmen book with 8th rules. They are not bad at all
@bill i was not speaking from a tourney day mind set. I was talking about an overall feel. but hey i can respect where you coming from. How do you think this edition has effected you style of play and list building? that was the point of this thread lol.
@Matt. It is kick ass that you have been able to get games in japan. Sadly it is only against warriors
On a side note now looking over the Beastmen book with 8th rules. They are not bad at all
Dakai- Dark Apostle
- Number of posts : 392
Registration date : 2008-04-17
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
really only two people...lol
Dakai- Dark Apostle
- Number of posts : 392
Registration date : 2008-04-17
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
I still have a general positive view of the new addition, although like you Nate, I still don't see the point in some of the watered down rules.
Taking away guessing ranges just made the game that much less interesting, so I think overall that was a dumb move, even though I have an empire army.
The same goes for being able to charge if you're within range, no matter how much wheeling or maneuvering you have to do.... once again, waters it down, and creates less of a need for true tactical thought. Pre-measuring in general has taken away that skill factor of knowing your distances.
I do like the removal of autobreaking from fear causing units. That never made a lot of sense to me in general so I think that was a plus.
Magic does see a lot of risk reward, more than ever before, lot's of people rolling 6 dice just to get that irresistible, only to see their level 1 mage get blown up.
Overall my impression is still that it's a fun game.
Taking away guessing ranges just made the game that much less interesting, so I think overall that was a dumb move, even though I have an empire army.
The same goes for being able to charge if you're within range, no matter how much wheeling or maneuvering you have to do.... once again, waters it down, and creates less of a need for true tactical thought. Pre-measuring in general has taken away that skill factor of knowing your distances.
I do like the removal of autobreaking from fear causing units. That never made a lot of sense to me in general so I think that was a plus.
Magic does see a lot of risk reward, more than ever before, lot's of people rolling 6 dice just to get that irresistible, only to see their level 1 mage get blown up.
Overall my impression is still that it's a fun game.
Ovich- Lord of Chaos
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Number of posts : 2629
Age : 50
Location : Miami, FL
Armies : Iron Warriors, Empire, Woodelves, Vampire Counts, Warriors of Chaos, Mid War Italians, Late War Soviets, Skorne
Registration date : 2008-02-29
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
I've heard people say that the tactics have shifted from being able to accurately estimate measurements to being good at risk assesment in the new edition.
I like the new rules for charging, because we used to waste a lot of time trying to get that one unit to wheel just another 1/4 inch to make the charge.
I like the new rules for charging, because we used to waste a lot of time trying to get that one unit to wheel just another 1/4 inch to make the charge.
Diosamblet- Primarch
- Number of posts : 672
Registration date : 2008-03-06
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
Im liking the new rules. At first i thought they were to damn simple and that it ruined the game. But with all the new builts for armies, it still has more strategy than a 40k game.
I dont like what they did to cavalry, they weakened them way to much. A cavalry charge on the flank of a unit should be horrendously devastating, but now most of the time they just bounce back.
I HATE the new warmachine rules, why the hell take away guessing ranges ? Is like evryone now has a GPS devise that can pinpoint exactly the distance to an enemy.
Horde rules were long overdue, it finally gives a benefit for HUGE units of crappy troops, all the books u read it shows massive hordes of goblins overwhelming better trained troops on force of numbers alone.
I like magic, the whole Winds of Magic instability fits the game very well.
I hate the High Elves and how stupid tough they are now in hand to hand, but i guess it makes sense fluff wise, i mean the bastards fought the freaking Demon Invasion when the Gates colapsed and actually won.
Change to the Auto Break from fear is great ! it was such a stupid rule, look i got ONE more Zombie than you..hahaa, you auto break !
Im not to fond of the change to the charges, i mean, if you roll well, an infantry Unit can charge like 16 inches ! A BIG part of the game to me was the whole trying to get that charge on the right spot and outmanuvering your opponent with feints and stuff so i could have a good charge angle. All thats pretty much gone now
I dont like what they did to cavalry, they weakened them way to much. A cavalry charge on the flank of a unit should be horrendously devastating, but now most of the time they just bounce back.
I HATE the new warmachine rules, why the hell take away guessing ranges ? Is like evryone now has a GPS devise that can pinpoint exactly the distance to an enemy.
Horde rules were long overdue, it finally gives a benefit for HUGE units of crappy troops, all the books u read it shows massive hordes of goblins overwhelming better trained troops on force of numbers alone.
I like magic, the whole Winds of Magic instability fits the game very well.
I hate the High Elves and how stupid tough they are now in hand to hand, but i guess it makes sense fluff wise, i mean the bastards fought the freaking Demon Invasion when the Gates colapsed and actually won.
Change to the Auto Break from fear is great ! it was such a stupid rule, look i got ONE more Zombie than you..hahaa, you auto break !
Im not to fond of the change to the charges, i mean, if you roll well, an infantry Unit can charge like 16 inches ! A BIG part of the game to me was the whole trying to get that charge on the right spot and outmanuvering your opponent with feints and stuff so i could have a good charge angle. All thats pretty much gone now
luis the young- The Lord of Cuba
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Number of posts : 2971
Age : 50
Armies : Orks, Space Wolves, O&G, Skaven, Lizardmen, Beastmen, Tyranids, FOW Peasant Canibal Army
Registration date : 2008-03-03
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
I like the new rules from the last addition there are areas that I thinkshould not have been changed but they have been listed by each of the earlier post.
Biggest thing I like is the change to magic makes it much more intresting and also the way we build armies now opens up some really fun lists.
Armies that really need new books are Brits, and tomb kings more for stats being fixed and some cost of troops.
Biggest thing I like is the change to magic makes it much more intresting and also the way we build armies now opens up some really fun lists.
Armies that really need new books are Brits, and tomb kings more for stats being fixed and some cost of troops.
Garry- Aspiring Champion
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Number of posts : 233
Age : 55
Location : Pembroke Pines
Armies : Chaos, dark elf, Skaven, Ogre, Orc (fan & 40K) Brit, eldar, marines, high elf
Registration date : 2008-11-04
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
I agree Garry. The magic rules are better since you now get some magic defense with or without fielding a mage. Limit to one dispel scroll is also a good switch.
Wood Elves need a new book. Limits to unit size and new skirmish rules hurt them pretty bad.
Wood Elves need a new book. Limits to unit size and new skirmish rules hurt them pretty bad.
ShadowMaster- Chaos God
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Number of posts : 2812
Age : 55
Location : Pembroke Pines
Armies : [WHFB] DoC, Lizardmen, O&G [LoTR] Moria [40k] Daemons [WM/H] RoS, Cryx, Cygnar, Mercs, Gators, Skorne
Registration date : 2008-03-26
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
GW is absolutely brilliant in creating a desire for the rules to be change.
You guys are primed for version 9 already. "Boy, I hope they make Calvary what it is used to be"
Ovich, your Skaven must be cleaning everyone's clock. Their are one of the biggest infantry based armies at there.
You guys are primed for version 9 already. "Boy, I hope they make Calvary what it is used to be"
Ovich, your Skaven must be cleaning everyone's clock. Their are one of the biggest infantry based armies at there.
jerryb- Chaos God
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Number of posts : 1451
Location : The Hidden Forrest
Armies : AT-43, Pyrates, Battle Tech
Registration date : 2008-06-04
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
Seeing as it's going to happen, don't see why anyone wouldn't be interested in changes to come.
Kyle- Chaos God
- Number of posts : 1433
Armies : Infinity-Yu Jing, Heavy Gear-North, 40K-IG/Orks, Uncharted Seas-Shroud Mages, FoW-SS, AM Naval-Japanese, Hordes-Trolls, Blood Bowl-Goblins, Malifaux- Guild, Anima-Azure, BFG- Chaos, Dystopian Wars- Brits
Registration date : 2008-11-03
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
What if GW came out with the best rule set ever. Would you want them to change it?
Look at chess, it's been around for hundred if not thousand of years with little to no change. And chess is not a simple game. There are many books on the subject and you could study for years. For a lot of people chess is their single hobby.
So what I am proposing is not impossible. GW could make a good product and not have to change it and still make a good profit.
Look at chess, it's been around for hundred if not thousand of years with little to no change. And chess is not a simple game. There are many books on the subject and you could study for years. For a lot of people chess is their single hobby.
So what I am proposing is not impossible. GW could make a good product and not have to change it and still make a good profit.
jerryb- Chaos God
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Number of posts : 1451
Location : The Hidden Forrest
Armies : AT-43, Pyrates, Battle Tech
Registration date : 2008-06-04
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
Maybe you should stick to chess.
Kyle- Chaos God
- Number of posts : 1433
Armies : Infinity-Yu Jing, Heavy Gear-North, 40K-IG/Orks, Uncharted Seas-Shroud Mages, FoW-SS, AM Naval-Japanese, Hordes-Trolls, Blood Bowl-Goblins, Malifaux- Guild, Anima-Azure, BFG- Chaos, Dystopian Wars- Brits
Registration date : 2008-11-03
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
Kyle wrote:Maybe you should stick to chess.
ROFL
ShadowMaster- Chaos God
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Number of posts : 2812
Age : 55
Location : Pembroke Pines
Armies : [WHFB] DoC, Lizardmen, O&G [LoTR] Moria [40k] Daemons [WM/H] RoS, Cryx, Cygnar, Mercs, Gators, Skorne
Registration date : 2008-03-26
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
Kyle wrote:Maybe you should stick to chess.
Kyle, that took a lot thought...
for you.
jerryb- Chaos God
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Number of posts : 1451
Location : The Hidden Forrest
Armies : AT-43, Pyrates, Battle Tech
Registration date : 2008-06-04
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
I could have done up some charts and power points to help make my point, but didn't want to lose you.
Kyle- Chaos God
- Number of posts : 1433
Armies : Infinity-Yu Jing, Heavy Gear-North, 40K-IG/Orks, Uncharted Seas-Shroud Mages, FoW-SS, AM Naval-Japanese, Hordes-Trolls, Blood Bowl-Goblins, Malifaux- Guild, Anima-Azure, BFG- Chaos, Dystopian Wars- Brits
Registration date : 2008-11-03
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
As in the past all that effort would olny have confirmed that you are wrong.
jerryb- Chaos God
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Number of posts : 1451
Location : The Hidden Forrest
Armies : AT-43, Pyrates, Battle Tech
Registration date : 2008-06-04
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
You can't argue with charts
Kyle- Chaos God
- Number of posts : 1433
Armies : Infinity-Yu Jing, Heavy Gear-North, 40K-IG/Orks, Uncharted Seas-Shroud Mages, FoW-SS, AM Naval-Japanese, Hordes-Trolls, Blood Bowl-Goblins, Malifaux- Guild, Anima-Azure, BFG- Chaos, Dystopian Wars- Brits
Registration date : 2008-11-03
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
Jerry i love how you take over a board that has nothing to do with your problems with GW. Shut the fuck up
Dakai- Dark Apostle
- Number of posts : 392
Registration date : 2008-04-17
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
Went to a bigger GW and trashed some vampire counts twice at 1500 with lizards. It's amazing how the new rules have nerfed that army, and made lizards sick.
Anyways, playing a rematch at 2000 pts tomorrow, which is the normal points range my opponent plays.
Anyways, playing a rematch at 2000 pts tomorrow, which is the normal points range my opponent plays.
Diosamblet- Primarch
- Number of posts : 672
Registration date : 2008-03-06
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
With the correct build VCs can still be very tough. Big blocks of Ghouls and Grave Guard are tough to deal with.
ShadowMaster- Chaos God
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Number of posts : 2812
Age : 55
Location : Pembroke Pines
Armies : [WHFB] DoC, Lizardmen, O&G [LoTR] Moria [40k] Daemons [WM/H] RoS, Cryx, Cygnar, Mercs, Gators, Skorne
Registration date : 2008-03-26
Re: 8th ed and where we stand
Indeed, my brother's VC army is stupid powerful, as he was infantry heavy with grave guard, etc.
scurrdi- Chaos God
- Number of posts : 2520
Registration date : 2008-03-04
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