Questions concerning army lists and Hordes

1) I want to know people's opinion on this subject. I've been discussing this with some people and what I've seen is that in WM, if you browse the forums(I'll go with Menoth since that's what I play) the only help I'll be getting is "oh, run unit A,B,and C along with warcaster D and you win!"

That's not helpful or constructive. At first I thought it was because Menoth seemed to have the most synergy required to be able to play effectively. Then I thought it was because our infantry isn't really that great but we have 2-4 that really shine. Then I just realized that people play like that because they want to win and are afraid to try anything else. Has anyone else noticed that kind of thing regarding their own factions? Does everyone on Khador take mortars and pikemen? Does everyone playing Cygnar take Long-gunners?


2) WM VS H.

Warbeasts totally wreck my jacks (Menite). I've done a few things like lead with the Revenger and put Retribution on him, but that one hit they usually get off him gets him pretty hard. Not to mention that if they hit one of my jacks that doesn't have repel they can just wail on him like 3-5 times and usually finish it off. It just seems like the Fury mechanic is very hard to take on. Any tips for taking on Hordes in general? (Besides the obvious "Oh, take Alten Ashley, LAWL"


Any help is appreciated


-R

Rick,
I have to admit that with my Trolls, I have never once fielded Kriel Warriors or any Pyg units. I feel they are underpowered and I don't see them winning any games for me.
In addition I would prefer to run a unit of champions over two units of kriel warriors for two more reasons a.) [and most important] financially a box of champs is cheaper than a box of warriors plus two blisters, plus unit attachment, plus weapon attachment. and b.) in a timed game, moving all those models takes time that I want to use to be able to get everything done.

In response to Hordes, well, yea ALTENLAWL. But against Beasts you should try to charge them or you will face a beast (most likely) who is empty on fury and ready to take a number of boosted swings at you. also play to their weaknesses. like Jacks they have relatively low DEF so spells generally work well. Kreoss' feat will wreck a beast heavy troll army because only the Fell caller can get them to stand up and Madrak can prevent that knockdown.
also, you need to go for the chewy center of the army in Hordes. A hordes beast may have a good deal of hit points and armor but if you're attacking his beast and causing damage then also attacking his squishy caster and causing him to transfer damage to his beast you're doing well.

hope some of that helps

So how exactly does that Fury mechanic work? Do they start with say 4 Fury on 'em and they spend it to attack? Or does their warlock allocate fury to them?

Warbeasts, optimally have no fury on them, but have a fury total that tells you how much they can be forced.

So for instance, one of my Gladiators can build up to 4 fury. So he builds 1 fury to charge, makes both his attacks. Any boosting I do will add a fury for each boost. After my initial attacks, I can build another fury to make another attack. Once I've built up 4 fury I can no longer make attacks.

Now on my next turn, my Caster can Leech Fury off of the Titan, in order to power his own spells. If my Warbeast has ANY fury on him at the beginning of the turn, then he must pass a threshold check. A threshold check is done by taking the Threshold value of the beast, in a Titans case it would be a 10, and subtracting the amount of Fury it has on it already. Then you have roll at or below that number.

So If my Titan has 4 Fury on it, and I can' t leach any off ( too much fury on all my other beasts or something that prevents me from leaching) 10-4=6. So I have to roll a 6 or under on 2 dice or my warbeast frenzies.

Warbeasts that Frenzy are less useful because you have less control over them and you can't do extra attacks. Even worse, they will sometimes attack your own troops or friendly beasts.

Ovich wrote:Warbeasts that Frenzy are less useful * because you have less control over them and you can't do extra attacks. Even worse, they will sometimes attack your own troops or friendly beasts.

* The caveat to that is that a frenzied warbeast gets one attack boosted to hit and boosted to damage. so if you max out fury on a warbeast and can't leech it all off and he frenzies in front of the enemy warcaster there's a pretty good chance that warcaster is going to eat some damage

Hey Rick,

First, take everything you read on the PP forums with a grain of salt. Some people on there talk with no experience and purely theorymachine (kinda like here sometimes). If you want some good feed back post on the Guru Dojo forums. Thats where the dedicated player community goes.

Second, what people use is a matter of preference and based on situations. What kind of player are you at this point? If you are a "I like to play for fun and want to explore my different units" then you should do so. The problem could be in the opponents you face. If you play a game vs another player that is exploring his faction then you will be on equal ground more or less. If you play against a competetive player you "may" be disadvantaged depending on your unit and jack choices. The fact of the matter is that some units/models are more efficient at certain tasks than others. It depends on what you are trying to do.

Lastly, a Revenger is a light jack. You don't send him into battle with warbeasts without some support. A heavy on the other hand is a different story. You'll find them a lot more durable. It's usually all about who gets the charge. The Fury mechanic is better than the Focus mechanic and that's why they are changing it in MK II. However, I would still say that WM is advantaged against Hordes because if you kill off their beasts they are f'd and Hordes warlocks are squishy if they can't transfer.

Bottom line, if you are a good experienced player you can take any units/models and win. Some people just favor the staple troops and since most Miami players are learning, they take the stuff they see most commonly posted up. As you play, you'll get a feel for what you like and what you don't like. You'll develop your own playstyle.

Do you happen to play Menoth, Galonso?

galonso wrote:The Fury mechanic is better than the Focus mechanic and that's why they are changing it in MK II.

What do you mean they are changing it? Is WM getting the FURY mechanic? The would be great! I wonder what they will do.

Back to Rick, You need to hear what people say and then throw your own spin to stuff. Also, you need to get some reps in. You need to learn how to use your pieces. You've heard me rant about mortar crews. I didn't like them. I didn't like them! I DIDN"T LIKE THEM! But, I kept playing them. Kept playing them! KEPT PLAYING THEM! Then something funny happened. I learned how to use them. Every unit has a purpose. Some are better than others at their purpose. Can you really say Idrians are better than the Choir? They have different purposes. Also, learn the combos and learn how to write lists. Which caster takes what? What units synergize best? Etc, etc, etc.

As for WM vs. HORDE, we can argue which has the advantage all day long. FURY is better than FOCUS. However, WM has more pieces than HORDES. However, HORDES pieces tend to "do" more. However, if you kill the warbeasts the caster is useless. And so forth.

I do play Menoth. I played them at Templecon and went 4-0-1 in Guts and Gears and 4-1 in Hardcore.

plodolo wrote:

galonso wrote:The Fury mechanic is better than the Focus mechanic and that's why they are changing it in MK II.

What do you mean they are changing it? Is WM getting the FURY mechanic? The would be great! I wonder what they will do.

I never said they were going to change the Focus mechanic into fury.

Please go here for more details.

http://privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/mkII/

I never said you did. I was asking if they were.

Ok no problem. Just being clear for everyone who might misunderstand.