UK GT Final Results...

Everyone,

I'm sure the following won't be too surprising, but following is a breakdown of the most recent UK GT Final Results...who do you think dominated the top 30????? Daemons (with VC and Dark Elves running 2 and 3, though a distant 2 and 3)...shocking, I know...at any rate, below is the breakdown...enjoy.

-Sam

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1. Andy Isherwood - Daemons
2. Fabio Panicucci - Daemons
3. Fabian Quinn - VC
4. Ella Bonucci - Daemons
5. Tom Mawdsley - Daemons
6. Phil Manwaring - Dark Elves
7. Eddie Eccles - Daemons
8. Neil Peckett - Daemons
9. Adam Hall - Dwarfs
10. Russ Veal - WoC

Special characters?

1. Bloodthirster + Masque
2. Lord of Change + Skulltaker
3. Manfred
4. No
5. No - double siren song though
6. No
7. masque
8. No - double siren song though
9. Thorek
10. No

31 daemons, 22 darkelves and 20 VC out of 125 people

top 30 people = 16 daemon, 5 VC, 3 dark elves and then...

2 warriors, 2 high elf, 1 dwarf, 1 tomb king player

4th place army

BloodThirster,AS3+,Dispell,S7,Reroll
Siren with steed
Tzeentch on chariot with 125points banner and dispel
10horrors,10letters,10nettes with champion,6 furies
2x5hounds,5flamers


5th place army

Heroes

Herald of Nurgle w/ Panquin, Noxious Vapours, Slime Trail - 200pts
Herald of Tzeentch w/ Winged Horror, Spell Breaker - 160pts
Herald of Slaanesh w/ Siren Song, Soporific Musk, Steed of Slaanesh - 165pts
BSB Herald of Slaanesh w/ Siren Song, Torment Blade, Steed of Slaanesh, Banner of Unholy Victory - 220pts

Core

20 Daemonettes w/ Full Command, Banner of Ecstasy - 295pts
16 Plaguebearers w/ Full Command, Icon of Eternal Virulence - 247pts
18 Horrors - 216pts
5 Furies - 60pts

Special

6 Flesh Hounds - 210pts

Rare

6 Flamers w/ Champion - 225pts

Army Total - 1,998pts
Casting Dice - 6
Dispel Dice - 4 (1 Scroll)

6th place army

Level 4 - dark pegasus, scroll, focus familiar, black dragon egg
Level 2 - scroll, darkstar cloak
BSB - dark steed, ha, sdc, shield, lance, hydra banner

10 rxbs
10 rxbs
5 DRs - rxbs
5 Harpies
5 Harpies

6 COKs - std, champ, asf banner, ring of hotek
5 Shades
5 Shades

Hydra
2 RBTs

8th place army

Kipper w. siren song
Slaanesh Herald with Siren Song
Khorne BSB on Jugger w. Sundering, AOK and Firestorm

10 Horrors
10 Bloodletters w. Stan and champ
19 Daemonettes with full command
5 Furies

6 Flesh Hounds

5 Flamers
5 Flamers

9th place army

Thorek
Runesmith - 3 scroll
Engineer - GW 1+ re roll save

10 Xbow
10 Xbow
15 warriors - command, shields, hvy arm etc

Cannon - Forging, unbreakable (engineer goes here)
Bolt - str 7
Bolt - str 7, hits on 2+
Rock Lobber - accuracy
10 Miners

Organ Gun
Gyrocopter

10th place army

Lvl 4- disc MoT, 2 x scroll, spell familiar, golden eye
Daemonic power - Stream of corruption

lvl 2 - Disc MoT, Puppet, enc shield
Daemonic power - Roar

lvl 2 - Mark of Nurgle (general) scroll, book of secrets

13 warriors - MoS, shields, full command

5 Mhorse, flails and Throwing axes - MoS

5 Mhorse, flails and Throwing axes - MoS

5 Hounds

5 Hounds

5 chaos knights - MoS

5 chaos knights - MoK

Hellcannon

Lol, much like in Warhammer history, the Demons are conquering the world.

can we assume Demons are broken?

wow, that DE army got 6th

Wait til the next round when peeps all pop up with the new Lizardmen. Then we can reevaluate.

I don't think so Bill. Lizardmen are pretty nasty, but I think Demons bring a whole new level of nastiness that alot of people are still having difficulty to deal with.

The hardest part about the Demon codex that I've discovered is their ability to roll leadership when they've still lost combat. With undead this isn't the case, so winning = dead critters. With Demons, if you happen to roll well that one turn which you fail by a few (or even better, roll double 1s) then nothing happens.

Then again, I haven't played against them yet so I can't say how much my stuff has credit for. I just know from looking at the rules that this is what would make it the most difficult for me. When I run over a unit of demons and beat them by 6, only to watch my opponent roll a 4 and only lose half of what he's supposed to, can make it pretty though.

yeah but then again Dan, not too many demons cost 4 points and can get resurrected at a rate of 6 a spell .

rokassan wrote:can we assume Demons are broken?

It may be a safe assumption.

True, but your 4 pts a model are not also KILLING MACHINES with a ward save ontop of whatever armor they might have.

They're hard to bring down when they're WS 7 though

Well this is true, though apparently not too hard, as noticed by the results, VCs did come in third though.

Even people who play Demons admit they are a bit overpowered. I believe the herald of Khorne is the only Hero level character in the game that can get a 0 armour save, because of that extra 3 to your armour added by the juggernaut.

scurrdi wrote:True, but your 4 pts a model are not also KILLING MACHINES with a ward save ontop of whatever armor they might have.

The DoC Khorne Herald can be upgraded to a 0+ save.
The WoC Khorne Champion on a Jugger and E.Shield gets a -1+ armor save.

Otherwise, very few daemons get ANY armor save at all. They rely on the 5+ ward as their only form of defense. Solid when you compare it to LA+Shield infantry, but it is nothing defensively compared to Chaos Knights, Empire Knights, or Ancient Stggies with a 1+ save.

With the exception of Nurgle, Daemons actually die quite quickly if you put them in a bad situation.

Don't get me wrong..... I'm not saying they are not a powerful armor option. They are a very stong choice. However, the internet reputation is a bit blown out of proportion.

That's where the tradeoff is. Demon's get a 5+ ward save, which is not that great, but it's unaltered, which is great. Most of the time the stuff that does the real damage in the game is strength 4, 5, and 6, weaponry. With an average 4+ armour save for most infantry, that quickly becomes a 5+, 6+ or No armour save. But Demons always get that 5+.

I think it was more balanced before when, like forest spirits, they would lose their save from magic attacks and spells.

Now, they are much harder to take down, especially the ones that are toughness 4 or 5.

Well, when Demons are whining evry single tournament out there, i think is a BIT more than just internet reputation : )
Right now strongest books out there are Demons and VC, GW realized they kinda fucked up, so the other books arent as strong as those 2.

Daemons suffer against armies that put out a lot of shooting, unless they use a build that has become fairly standard, which involves the Bloodthirster, with at least 1 if not 2 Slaanesh heralds with the Siren Song...a couple of Khorne dogs units, a 4-6 monster flamer unit, and either a Nurgle unit or a Tzeentch unit. The Slaanesh heralds run up in front of a gun line and force 1-2 units to charge them or flee...the BT is on the gunline by turn 2 and the rest of the army charges forward.

The biggest advantage Daemons have is their ability to not break. They don't auto-crumble, and can often be stubborn at least the first time they have to take a break test. The old daemonic instability was better because if they failed the base score, they vanished, where as now, they just lose a couple of models.

So, when combined with actual ward saves, vice non-magic ward saves, they are very hard to defeat -- as has been proven at several recent GTs/RTTs. The list really has few down-sides. Remember, you're talking to an Elf player, most of whose army, except for the Dragon Princes, tends to have a 5+ or worse armor save, not ward save...so am somewhat unconvinced with the "my army only has a 5+ ward save, but no armor save" argument. Especially when one thinks of the BT with a 3+ armor and 5+ ward save, at S6-10 and T6...

I agree with that, though Sam has a habit of saying it better then I do.

When was the last time GW nerfed something through an errata? They'll do it in a new army book (although that doesn't happen much either these days), but you rarely see it in an errata.

Just another reason why Privateer Press is looking like a company that monitors and manages it's games better than GW.

lordfairfax2001 wrote:Remember, you're talking to an Elf player, most of whose army, except for the Dragon Princes, tends to have a 5+ or worse armor save, not ward save...so am somewhat unconvinced with the "my army only has a 5+ ward save, but no armor save" argument. Especially when one thinks of the BT with a 3+ armor and 5+ ward save, at S6-10 and T6...

If you reread my last post, I said the 5+ ward is great compared to most infantry. It sucks when compared to your Dragon Princes. Add in your ASF and movement and I'd think your DPs would crush fleshhound units more often than not.

ShadowMaster wrote:If you reread my last post, I said the 5+ ward is great compared to most infantry. It sucks when compared to your Dragon Princes. Add in your ASF and movement and I'd think your DPs would crush fleshhound units more often than not.

I was not disagreeing with you on the save...but I must (from experience) disagree with you on the Flesh hounds...they get 2 attacks each...they are S5 T4 (if memory serves) and they munch through my Dragon Princes like so much candy. I get only a 4+ save, but need 4s to hit and 5s to wound when not charging...where as the Khorne-doggies need 4's to hit and 2's to wound, with a 5+ ward save, and they have 2 wounds each...cause Fear...so if I lose just one round, there's a high probability I'll also be out-numbered...double-1s or run and it's over...just like that. Khorne-doggies are ridiculous with the 2 wounds each...without that, they'd just be really good...with 2 wounds each...they're great!

Well since I grew up on HoC, I used to heavy cav that has more of a tank quality. The doggies do well, but they also take damage much faster than I'm personally used to.

If I field 2 units of 5, it is quite common to loose 1 or both - even when I win.

Chris took out Skulltaker and his FH unit with those nasty Blackguard.

Matt took out 1.5 units and the HoK BSB yesterday. I ran one FH off to the far corner to save the 88 points, else they all would have died. Skulltaker ended the game alone in combat with a new Ancient Steggy skull for his collection!

The real broken unit is the flamers.
I rolled a new high of 29 attacks vs. Chris in round 1

Those doggies chewed through my poor rats faster than you can say "broken?" I was doing fine till skulltaker and his boyfriend with another unit of dogs charged my blocks, my lines crumbled like a cheap papercup at that point, the pride of Skavendom was anally raped in more ways than you can count, skulltaker made himself a new pair of furry grey slippers out Ratsputins' hide

That damn banner that gives me -2 to casting is wrong in so many lvls.

Charging stand and shoot Flamers is like WWI charges vs machine-gun nests, in my opinion what totally breaks the flamers is that they roll the ammount of shots BEFORE they hit ... i can take 12 shots that do D6 hits, but D6 shots Per guy on a unit of 6 is just insane.

I agree Luis.

I hope they beef your Skaven up in the new book to get them on a competitive level with the other 7th edition armies.

as things currently syand, DoC vs. Skaven is not a fair matchup.

Well yeah, unfortunately thats just the way alot of the cookie crumbles, particularly when basically make a whole new army.

Oh, and thats why Battlefront and Flames of War is also awesome! There ain't any issues of broken!