What's the general concensus on Dwarfs?

Some guy offered me a pretty sweet deal on a warhammer Dwarf army, but I'm wondering if they're worth it. Can they be competitive, or are they at the level of, say, Ogres? I know "every army can be competitive in the right hands" and all that, but I just want to get a feel if it's worth it. Also, where do they stand in the release schedule?

I'm not impressed by Dwarves. They have great shootin, artillery, and armor - but you can't move and so your stuck on the defensive every game.

I think Dwarves are a very difficult army to beat if played well by an experienced player.

Problem is when tournaments involve scenarios where they have to move. Then they're screwed. Movement 3 will get you no where, even if you can't be march blocked. With no cavalry, they are in trouble if they have to claim objectives, or sometimes something as easy as table quarters.

Plus, I think they are generally viewed as lacking versatility due to what bill mentioned above.. they are always on the defensive.

So for your average player to be competitive, you kind of have to sit back,... shoot , shoot , shoot, shoot.... and then when the enemy closes, which usually they have to because you're shooting the crap out of them, you fuckem up with your nasty ass infantry .

Agreed. It's more a dislike for the limitations of play-style.

No cav (fast or heavy). Scouts that don't skirmish. (stuck in terrain) Ambushers that can't catch anything once they pop out. (m3) Over-priced flyer bait. (140 vs 50 for an eagle or 60 for 5 harpies/furies)

You get strong shooting and strong infantry blocks that are hard to break (high defense, ranks, stubborn, high leadership)

You don't get heavy cav, light cav, skirmishers, bait units, war machine hunters, or monsters

Dig in a corner, roll well, and you have a chance to draw vs. anyone. Winning is another matter. Ask Neil, Mike, or Juan.

40K Necrons= WHFB Dwarves. I've heard this comparison in the past. Both armies are gimped.

Thanks guys...certainly made me stop and think before pulling the trigger. I'll mull it over carefully, I appreciate the feedback.

I think you should talk to a Dwarf player to get a more rounded information. I have a friend who really likes Dwarf's and has been very successful with them.

Unfortunately he refuses to go onto any forums and rarely comes to Sunshine. He mostly goes to Eric's house. I'll try to get some insight from him.

JerryB

I have a Dwarf army, that i have yet to play with. Ive been meaning to bring it to a tourney, but people keep on telling me how boring they are. I think i will bring them to the next tourney and see how they do.

Also remember, if its a REALLY good deal, grab it, somewhere down the line some guy will REALLY wanna play Dwarves and you can either make a good trade or sell them for profit.

Dwarfs only real gimpage is the lack of movement, which is something that will never change as to the fluff and flavor of the army. Dwarfs have excellent range attacks and hardy fighters all around, but as been said they are a much more defensive army than anything. They can handle themselves fine, the one weakness as been mentioned is if you are assigned a scenario that forces you to make big movements.

Don't do it.

I can't believe just their movement speed would totally destroy their worth.
The most important aspect to any army within any game is, do you have fun playing that unit?

No one who plays Dwarfs on a regular bases has step forward with their input, and I really don't think you are going to get an acurate assestment until that happens.

And remember things change. I started playing with Skaven. At the time (2006) I was one of the few players. Now everyone is racing to get a Skaven army.

JerryB

Ahhhh - Neil posted right above you Jerry. He has more Stunties than anyone I know.

Do you mean bayardnbk?

Does he play them? Or just have a lot of Dwarfs.

I had a ton of Goblins and Tau and never played them once, just give an example.

I really like the night Goblins, but that does not make me an expert. And I really don't think I could give a fair assessment. Liking or dis-liking a unit is not an accurate qualifier

JerryB

Neil play Dwarves and plays them well.

I've seen mixed success with dwarves.

Pros:

You have Bob's Runic Emporium. Dwarves are really the only army in the game to customize their own magic weapons, standards, and even give magic to their WAR MACHINES. This is huge, as it really provides the versatility of the dwarf army.

Great shooting. Dwarven shooting is solid. Save for the D3 wound cannon, the artillery has a wide variety, and the BS 4 handgunners are not too shabby either.

Rock Solid Infantry. With a combination of runes and characters, your elite infantry can withhold any charge on the planet. This is critical to dwarven success IMO, so that is why the runes are designed the way they are.


Cons:

Movement. Duh.

Counter Charging. Due to low movement, dwarves are easily caught out of position. This means that if you deploy poorly, or are too far out, then your not always in position to capitalize on that failed charge by the enemy, or get a good flank in.

Relatively static play (IMHO) Dwarves only really have a few basic designs, which is due to their lack of calvary. While the magic weapon/standard abilities make up for this somewhat, it doesn't appeal to as many of the players.


Dwarves, like most older codexes, are very difficult to play. However, Dwarves are currently our highest turnout for tournaments (we had 4 out of 8 people one tournament playing stunties) so obviously people like them.

People may like them, and they do have some variety.

Dan makes some good points about customization, but they lack in Magic and BIG MONSTERS. Although they have a variety of artillery to chose from, there are more frightening units out there that cost less points.

Outnumbered, faster (INT, Move), and more destruction in other armies. Dwarfs are meant to pepper you down with artillery, and finish with melee static. Unfortunately, movement is critical in Warhammer, so stopping flanking, capturing table corners, and making the opposition rethink charging can only be done by heavy artillery and the Anvil. Many dwarf players agree that gun lines are the best to play, but also boring, one-phase turns.

I have tried balanced, all shooting, and all melee. Shooting is your best bet, you get handed usually with balanced, and melee expect them to run around you, engage little, and draw.

Speaking of...who wants to have a 10k army v. army showdown with my dwarfs?!

10k points !! I may have that much with my O&Gs, would have to check.

Let's rock!

I have 8K in DoC, but you need to be willing to deal with the 24 power dice it involves.

at 10k points you'll be lucky to have a spell left after all the spell breaker runes go off. 4+ spell is destroyed !

Max i can make is 6800 points of O&G some 380 models.
Skaven 7000 , 25 power dice and more rats than i care to count.

I probably have about 8 k in Empire if I fully deck out all my characters. That could be a pretty gross megabattle..

Too bad it would take 3 days !

Well let me know if ya'll are interested. I have 8.8k in dwarfs without characters, but not sure how balanced it would be since I have a ton of specials (warmachines, slayer army)