Empire Army

I am really thinking of starting to build an Empire army.

Has anyone played them with new rules with or against?

Are they now competative?

What are the must have in the army?

I play right now Dark elf, brits. WOC, Skaven, Ogre sold off the orc and high elf

Any info on empire would be a great help

Thanks

I was building a 7Ed Empire army when they announced the new BRB. that put a halt to the production. Fortunately, I was planning alot of core and my list will still work in 8Ed.

I think the same units still work well, you just want to take them in bigger groups vs. MSU. Knights, guns, and artilley are always a good place to start.

Not sure about the War Alter and priests now that you need to roll for the bound spells. I need to play a few test games to see.

I just recently traded for a Belthsar Gelt model because the flying mage looks good!

I was thinking units of 35 7 ranks should stop most steadfast cost under 200pts

I really like the rules for detachments with the counter charge into the flank or the guns getting the stand and shoot if parent unit charged

Greatswords look good like the models, Mortar awsome, and the outriders look like they can be a real pain in the ass.

There lord and hero choices are cheap not using named ones

Yeah... Empire got a big boost in this edition.

Cheap Steadfast infantry blocks. Powerful artillery. Access to all of the lores.

Yeah, they are pretty potent.

The biggest problem with Empire is being able to deal out damage in CC. Your shooting is good (for humans) and plentiful, and you've got lots of troops out there, but none of your units do lots of offensive CC damage.

Your the only army in the game that does not have a Base 2 Attack unit for CC, and you have no T4 to work with at all. Your most offensive weapon are Inner Circle Knights (S6 on the charge) but they lose that effectiveness after 1 round of combat.

Basically, your infantry's job is to be a big snare in the enemy's plan, and hope that your numbers and dice will win it for you in the end, because almost every other army can out fight you in CC.


Just my experiences with Empire.

Unless something changed, Outriders are Move or Shoot and absolutely useless. Pistoliers are some of the best light cav in the game - the problem is they nerfed the usefulness of light cav for march blocks and redirects. The Vanguard move does little to balance that.

Empire are average human stats. S3 T3 I3
You need to find ways to work around the challenges that brings with 8Ed CC rules.

Outriders can have some effective uses, you just have to be careful with them and not completely treat them like fast cavalry.

Since Outriders ARE fast cav, that means they get the free move. Now, if you just move up an inch or two, your now within firing range on turn 1. Since you don't count as moved, you can open up with all of those gunshots turn 1. They are just tricky to play.

Pistoliers used to be awesome, but with pistols now having a long range modifier , they aren't as good as they once were. That being said, 5 pistoliers with a champ and repeater pistol can be very effective against lightly armored foes, or even knights (with the -2 to armor).

Fast cav have seen a serious hit in this edition, overall.

Are you sure pistiols have a long range modifier?

Yeah, looks like they do, but its countered by quick to fire, so they never suffer the -1 Penalty for moving and shooting.

everyone keeps saying that the march blocking is dead but they still need to roll a leadership to march and if the fast cav can get behind a unit they still can add there weight in a charge at the right time with at least 5 models and get the +2 to combat res. or +1 flank. I know they will not take away the rank bonus but hell that is a +1 charge +1or2 flank or rear to res. with units that normally have 4 or 5 save.

I think everyone is a bit over glum on the Light Cav rules. They can still be used to harrass and slow down the enemy advancement quite well IMO. They are just much more open to death from TLOS casters and shooting.

I still plan to run 10 Pistoliers in my Empire list.

I'll admit this is also because I love how they came out and I want to use them.

I know I looked at the model of the pistoliers and love them.

I think this is the one reason I want to start an Empire army I really like the figs and the colors I will be able to use.

Fast Cav can still do a lot, but as a player who LOVES fast cav (hell, I introduced half of the gaming group to their fantastic-ness that I play with). They have really taken a hit.

1. Frenzied units have to only "take a ld test" to not charge the nearest enemy, which really hurts the cav advantage.

2. Fleeing only 2d6 MAX (no movement bonus) means that fast cav are likely to get run-down by infantry in the "charge-flee" game.

3. Pistols with long range modifier mean you need to be within 6" to hit on 5s, see point 2 for the problem with this.

4. While the enemy's battleline will have a general (or at least a character with the new character rules) to help boost leadership, your fast cav do not. Best fast cav ld is 8 (maraders) but most is a ld 7 or 6, meaning it will be hard for you to march in subsequent turns if your opponent just ignores you.

Now, they still can do everything else that they normally did before, it's just extremely difficult now. The flee reaction is the most painful, as that tactic is truly gone (flee and force normal movement). Trust me, I love the models and the idea, but I'm not sure it's just as effective in this edition.

But, we shall wait and see.

I LOVED fast cav. Minimum 2 in every list. Now, not so much. Just not worth the points.

Only fast calv that i see its worth its points is Spider Riders, they can move through terrain with their vanguard move, and their poison means they can be use to suicide charge a unit to take out wizards. Initiative of 4 on the Spiders !

Dark elf fast cav is not bad. St4 on charge and re-roll to hits first round

Garry wrote:Dark elf fast cav is not bad. St4 on charge and re-roll to hits first round

and then get struck back and killed.

DE have one of the best fast calv, in my opinion. The cheapest elven calvery, too. They still aren't worth the 117pt price tag (mus+crossbows) for 5 models.

117pt for the 5, what else in your army can you get for that price, 20 crossbows, or 20 spearmen. I bet if you try out 1 unit of fast cav and truely use them to hunt down war machines, mages or to get that extra points in combat res on an important combat you'll be sold on it.

I really need to break out my dark elfs and use them for a bit, but really want to put together an empire army and trying to work out the new rules with my Skaven and Brits and Ogres right now.

76 points for 5 spider riders with short bows and musicians, they allready come with spears and shields, spiders are poison with Ini 4 and they can go through terrain with no probs.

I'll throw them away all day long to kill 1 mage.

Hell you can even throw them away for a chance that you can get the bonus on combat if your other unit is going to be steadfast that is combat.

Spider riders so far have been a pain in my ass in some of my games, they have killed mages on me, killed my catapult and have screwed me on combate res. with a flank hit on my knights that were tied up with a unit of 50 gobos.

Garry wrote:117pt for the 5, what else in your army can you get for that price, 20 crossbows, or 20 spearmen. I bet if you try out 1 unit of fast cav and truely use them to hunt down war machines, mages or to get that extra points in combat res on an important combat you'll be sold on it.

I really need to break out my dark elfs and use them for a bit, but really want to put together an empire army and trying to work out the new rules with my Skaven and Brits and Ogres right now.

I used multiple fast Calvary units, 2-3, in the past in every single list. I can get two units of 5 harpies. 10 crossbowmen (much more effective in 8th), 16~20 spearmen, 2/3 of a Hydra, a sorceress, etc. All of which are -leagues- better.

If you're going to use them to simply hunt warmachines and mages, then get Harpies. They do this better for half the cost. Some armies don't have the option of taking harpies to take out warmachines and mages- but that doesn't make them effective for their cost.