Fast Cav

I think that the fast cav. is getting a bum wrap with this addition. Here are my strong points

March blocking still will make them roll LDR test
They still can reform and use there missle weapons well
Still can be used to take out roaming mages and war machines
If you can keep them 5 strong they can give you a +1 or +2 to res. (flank or rear)
If they have spears they should get normally st. 4 on charge almost every army
If they hit a unit that is already in combat they can add a +1 charge plus the +1 or +2 for where they hit this could swing a stalemate

They can die in one turn from archers; archers that are not now shooting at your dangerous units.

From what I've heard (haven't read the rulebook here in Japan):

Minuses:
Their role as diverters has been nerfed
March blocking is no longer automatic
You need at least a rank to deny ranks when flank/rear charging
Stepping up means they are likely to get hit back in combat
shooting in 2 ranks means more shots coming their way
True line of sight means they have no where to hide

Pluses:

Fast cavalry is still useful in keeping wizards from running outside their units. New miscast chart means those wizards might very well nuke their own units. However true line of sight is just as effective IMO.

12" move at the start of the game

I think that 12" free move is what will determine whether people will take fast cav or not. For shooty fast cav like pistoliers and dark riders, it's a big boost.

I'd love to get a good read of the rulebook and try out my orcs and goblins in the new edition...

Hey Mat, sup bud, hope you having fun in Japan !

The Greenskins got their up and downs with the new edition.

1- Little waagh magic is a lot easier to cast now, we gets more dice to do it with
2- Easy to horde with Ngs and Orcs cause of low cost, General dont have to stick arround much anymore since we get stubborn.
3-Our warboss on wyvern gets a 18 inch range for LD checks !
4- Spider riders are great with the new vanguard move, they are even better at warmachine hunting now, or killing mages.
5- Unit of 6 Trolls = pure destruction
6- We can fit a ton of characters into the points we are given
7- Savage Orcs can control their Frenzy with a LD check ! Frenzy rule change
8- The Waaagh miscast table is benevolent compared to the new miscast table.

Things that suck now:
1- Squig Hoppers, bye bye skirmish, now they rank, suck bad
2- Wolf boys = free kill points
3- Boar boy cavalry now need to be taken 10-15 strong, HUGE point sink
4- The Giant will prob die before he can do anything since Ini strike order in hand to hand
5- Black orcs are pretty much useles, huge point sink. they will prob strike last, and the way template weapons work now, lot of tem are gonna die to them.

luis the young wrote: 5- Black orcs are pretty much useles, huge point sink. they will prob strike last, and the way template weapons work now, lot of tem are gonna die to them.

Don't really think so. Everyone is afraid of template weapons and it's something everyone is panicking about but it's a threat to ALL units. Everyone is so focused on taking nothing but cheap units for hording. Really if anything I think more prime targets for template weapons will be the large blocks of grunts that will be coming at you, as they are the ones that will need the most cutting down to break. Making the more expensive units larger blocks will draw attention, but they still work as a shock unit or specialized hitter.

With everyone wanting to get hordes going, the targets of the templates are going to be the big easy to hit clumps of troops. Picking out the smaller an more elite units in 8E is actually not sounding like a good strategy at all as the most dangerous things are going to be the large stubborn blocks.

Also O&G are full of cheap units, gives you points to send on a few expensive units, they aren't as restrictive as other armies.

I thought that you needed two ranks of 5 combatants to claim flank/rear bonus.

You need 1 complete rank, which is 5x2 (or 3x2 for Ogre sized and Bretts)
The front row is not considered a "rank"

... and 5x2 fast cav is never going to work for breaking ranks, since 1 casualty will take away that much needed 2nd rank, while 5x3 is getting too expensive.

I think what GW intends is for Warhammer to become a game in which blocks of infantry try to outmaneuver each other while aided by monsters and cav, instead of simply dominated by the latter.

...which is fine, but it does seem that fast cav (and med. cav) have been left without much of a role to play.

You need only 1 model to claim the +1 or +2 for flank or rear charges...

You need 2 full ranks (10 models or 6 models for Ogre and Bretts) to "disrupt" or deny the opponent their rank bonus.


You've highlighted some very good points about fast cav Gary. A lot of the Ld stuff you've talked about is just really up to chance. But, if you use that vanguard move and get 12" away and then DONT get turn 1, you better bet all of that short range shooting is gonna blow those poor T3 5+ save models away.

Also, save short of goblins or rats, I wouldn't charge my fast cav in. Sometimes you can end up giving away more points of combat res from the attacks back (since your opponent will always get to hit you back, or sometimes, even before you!)

Dark elf fast cav can hit pretty good now with high "I" and also re-roll to hits first round.

I am not sure if when I use fast cav if I would use that 12 in vangaurd move. But instead use them to move around the big block units and get in the back feild. Soping them that chance of open fireing on them Turn 1

Plus now who ever you are playing will have to wounder when there is a fast cav unit on there side or flank should I turn my unit around so the do not hit me there.

I haven't read anything that says a Bretonnian lance formation disrupts ranks with a flank charge.
The rule book says you need two ranks of FIVE models to do so. Didn't read anything in the FAQ
to change this. But G.W. is constantly updating, so it may happen.

Being that Bretts get the rank with 3 models in lance formation, I assumed they'd only need 6.

Yes, Bretonnians get rank bonus with three models wide in a lance formation.
However, the rulebook reads that you need two ranks of five models each to
disrupt a unit's ranks with a flank charge.
This would also apply to Monstrous Infantry.

Fast Cav. die too fast to shooting. There is little advantage to moving them
forward into enemy archer's short range. Vanguard move best used to re-deploy
them away from or toward the flank the enemy is threatening the most.

True - most folks just think of the 12" advance up the board, but they could also move to cover a flank or challenge some scouts that just popped up.

Keep in mind too that some of the weapons that fast cav commonly use got nerfed too since they did not write specific rules regarding short or long range for different weapons.

So for instance.. they increase the range of pistols to 12 inches. I'm thinking "hey that's awesoem.. pistoliers FTW ! " But then Chris reminded me that that's 12 inches at long range, 6 at short.. Great, so if Pistoliers march, rapid fire and shoot at 12 inches, I need 7s to hit. They effectively got nerfed, because now I have to move within 6 inches to hit like I did before.

Same thing with Throwing axes, javelins, and anything else where range didn't matter.

Oops ..

Scratch that... I was just reading that quick to fire weapons do not suffer the -1 to hit for moving and shooting.

So pistoliers FTW ! 12 inch range... wow.... so if I can get withing 6 inch range , my regular pistoliers will hit on 5's.. That's awesome.

Keep in mind though that Fast Cav do not have 360 line of sight anymore either... which was really handy some times