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Fantasy Tournament Rules Ideas from the UK

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The Eldar Guy
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Fantasy Tournament Rules Ideas from the UK Empty Fantasy Tournament Rules Ideas from the UK

Post by lordfairfax2001 Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:34 pm

I remember a discussion here ealier about army comp and all that for tournaments...pros/cons/gripes/and all that good stuff.

The Europeans have an interesting system they use that I just discovered and thought I'd put it up here for you guys to consider at future Fantasy RTTs.

I'm not certain about all the restrictions, especially the "no army can be doubled," but it does seem like it seeks to balance the lists out a little bit, though there's still room for making "beardy" lists, it's harder to do with the below restrictions.

Army restriction
No army can be doubled, no SOC allowed.

Army size: 2000/2250/2500 points (depending on category, see below)
with open rosters, so everyone can see everything.

General composition rules

- Armies are 2000/2250/2500 points.
- No characters that are: special, named or Albion
- No DoW or RoR in non DoW armies .

- Rare choices may not be repeated, except for HE, where they can be repeated once for each choice.
- Max. 2 of the same Special choice.
- Max. 3 of the same Core choice, except ranked infantry without missile weapons.
- Max. 10 PD/10DD in an army *
- Max. 3 units of fliers, flying characters included.
- Max. 3 units of core shooters with a range of 20”+ (units of 5 models or less do not count).
- Max. 5 warmachines.

*Magic description
You can use a maximum of 10 power dice in each magic phase. Each bound spell you use count as 1 power dice, all following bound spells used in the same turn counts as 2 power dice.

Every ability/item that adds +1 to cast rolls counts as one power dice in each magic phase. Every ability/item that adds +1 to dispel rolls counts as one dispel dice in each magic phase. Every ability that grants the bearer complete knowledge of a single lore or allows bearer to select spells without rolling counts as one power dice in each magic phase

All dice you would not normally generate, such as 2 gen Slann free dice, Skaven warpstones, night goblin mushrooms, power of darkness etc., also count in the total number of dice you can use in a magic phase.

Tomb Kings count each dice they use for a spell as 1 power dice and casket of souls counts as 2 dice total. They can not chose not to use all the dice when casting an incantation, for example a Liche Priest can’t choose only to use 1 dice on a spell. You can how ever choose not to cast a spell with a model. The 2 basic power dice all armies get only counts if they are used to dispel RIP spells with.

Max 10 dispel dice per army. First dispel scroll (and similar working items) you have in your army counts as 1 dispel dice, in EACH magic phase. The second and all other scrolls, counts as 2 dispel dice in each magic phase. So if you have 3 scrolls you can use a maximum of 5 dispel dice each magic phase. Dice from magic resistance does count in this maximum.

Dice removed by the Chaos Dwarf Chalice of Darkness count as dice used. You remove 3 power dice, you can use only 7 more in your magic phase.

Race specific:
- Max 3 ratling guns.
- Max 3 units of chariots (characters on chariots included).
- Max 6 goblin fanatics.
- Treeman ancient counts as Treeman.
- Ring of Hotek counts as 3 dispel dice each phase.
- Every dark elf assassin after the first counts as a hero choice.
- Dark elf shades limited in unit size to 5-10 models.
- The Drakenhoff banner counts as an additional hero choice.
- The Helm of Commandment counts as an additional hero choice.
- All greater daemons (minus the great unclean one) take an additional hero choice.
- Herald BSB may take either demonic gifts or a daemonic icon, not both.
- Herald of Khorne with 0+ save takes an additional hero slot
- Master of sorcery is limited 0-1
- Siren Song is limited 0-1
- Horrors are limited to 0-2.
- Steam Tank counts as two warmachines.

The ladder system:
All armies are divided into three categories; A, B and C. Category A armies are limited to 2000pts, B to 2250pts and C to 2500pts.
When calculating victory points at the end of the game, once you have the result, then add 10% to any category A army's losses (e.g. 1234 would become 1234+123,4=1357) rounding off as normal. Any category C army would conversely have its losses reduced by 10% (e.g. 567 would become 567-56,7=510).

Category A (2000pts)
Demons of Chaos
Vampires

Category B (2250pts)
Bretonnia
Chaos Dwarfs
Dark Elves
Dwarfs
Empire
High Elves
Warriors of Chaos
Lizardmen
Skaven
Tomb Kings
Wood Elves

Category C (2500pts)
Ogre Kingdoms
Orcs & Goblins
Dogs of War
Beasts of Chaos
lordfairfax2001
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Post by luis the young Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:19 pm

Those are some crazy rules, those Brits are a bit nuts. Found it interesting how the VC and Demon books are so broken that they need to play with a handycap Smile
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Post by ShadowMaster Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:44 am

I've seen this post on the European boards -
It is still in the design phase (I believe this is pass 2 of 3)
It has some interesting ideas - but it is hardly balanced

Example 1: Matt and Luis play O&G well enough that 500 extra points to start and a 20% point swing at the end would give them too much of an edge IMO.

Example 2: You still have loopholes. The 0+ AS HoK is covered in the system, but the new -1 AS WoC champion is not included.

At some point you need to draw a line and just play by the game rules as they are designed.
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Post by Autarch (CM) Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:50 am

I saw this and I have a vehement hatred for it.
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Post by The Eldar Guy Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:57 am

not a fan.
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Post by Ovich Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:18 am

A 500 point difference among 2 players of equivalent skill = a loss for the player with 500 points less, I don't care what armies your're using. It's ridiculous.

If I was to play Matt or Luis' 2500 point O+G army with a 2000 pt Vampire army.. I think it's safe to say I would get beat, barring extremely poor rolling on my opponents part, or flukey mistakes.

I think Bill would agree with me.
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Post by ShadowMaster Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:42 am

I do agree
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Post by Autarch (CM) Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:08 am

This type of comp stuff is just a passive-aggressive attempt to rewrite entire army books to achieve some sort of half-contrived sense of balance.
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Post by The Eldar Guy Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:06 pm

Autarch (CM) wrote:Comp stuff is just a passive-aggressive attempt....

fix'd
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Post by Autarch (CM) Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:12 pm

The Eldar Guy wrote:
Autarch (CM) wrote:Comp stuff is just a passive-aggressive attempt....

fix'd

Admittedly so.
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Post by Diosamblet Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:31 pm

I wholeheartedly approve of this system and think it gives me a fair and balanced opportunity to win lots and lots of store credit.
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Post by Dr. Love Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:59 pm

Fantasy Tournament Rules Ideas from the UK Do-not-want-dog
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Post by luis the young Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:58 pm

I suck with O&G, i'm with my brother in green Mat to approve this system 100% !
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Post by scurrdi Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:59 am

I think Army comp is perfectly fine, though this seems over the top.

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Post by Ovich Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:17 pm

We should find out how they do it in Austrailia. Jeff Carrol and the guys at Podhammer are always talking about it over there and it seems like it works well for the tournament scene for them.
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Post by lordfairfax2001 Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:54 am

Ovich wrote:We should find out how they do it in Austrailia. Jeff Carrol and the guys at Podhammer are always talking about it over there and it seems like it works well for the tournament scene for them.
First, they write their own FAQs and ignore GWs recent poorly-written drivel. Second, they do make some attempt to have army comp matter more than it usually does, but not sure exactly how. Third, the recommendations above aren't entirely horrid...you don't have to incorporate all of them, maybe just some...it's a framework that you can consider when setting up an RTT (ala - Stephan's list comp rules at his recent tourny).
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Post by lordfairfax2001 Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:04 pm

Okay...just found a couple rules packets for Australia: PDF of Queensland AUS Rules Packet

Also, the 2007 Rules packet for GW GTs: 2007 GW GT Rules Packet


Last edited by lordfairfax2001 on Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by lordfairfax2001 Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:06 pm

Also, the most recent US GT Rules Packet: US GT Rules Packet
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Post by Ovich Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:51 pm

From what I've heard on the pod cast, the Australian Comp is more complicated that a simple 1-6 scoring scale. It seems they do actually use an system. But maybe those are only at NON GW related events.

Carrol and his buddies are always talking about the Masters.. does anyone know what they're referring to?
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Post by Diosamblet Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:08 pm

it's an aussy tournament for the 16 highest ranked players of the country.
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Post by ShadowMaster Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:38 pm

The Aussy scale is a score of 1-6.

The PDF says it is scored individually by an 6 man panel, and then averaged for a final score.

I thought your opponents scored you list and that gave you a total for the day.

Either way - the categories are pretty subjective. What defines the difference between Super Competitive and Too Competitive?
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Post by Ovich Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:15 pm

I don't know. There has to be something in place though... otherwise how do you prevent people from bringing horribly cheezy armies. ?
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Post by luis the young Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:35 am

You will never be able to stop soemone from bringuing a cheesy army because the books are so unbalanced right now that your core might be 10 times better than my best troops and prob cheaper too that you can bring them and still get a good score. Untill GW starts doing like WM and put all codexes out at the same time there will never be a balance.
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Post by ShadowMaster Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:18 am

I think we should adopt the Privateer Press approach, "play like we have a set", and forget about these comp score systems.
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