How are the new Skaven Army's doing

I have been so out of touch with every thing for the last 3 month. Not even doing that much painting. Such a sad thing.

But how are the Skaven playing. The books looks great but have not had a chance to even play one game with it yet.
Rattling guns still good?
How about the new warmachine are they worth it?
Has any one done any convertions for the morter and other units they put out in the new book with out models avaliable

God I need to get back into a gaming.......

From what I've read - the combo of monks, the furnace, and PCBs is very nasty.

2 unbreakable units is pretty rough... that's what I had to face twice during the last tournament. But the furnace is T6 with no armour save, so next time I know it's a prime target for my skinks, and I should fare better!

The dual combo is gross.

I think Skaven will be competitive, but not overly broken.

The Plague Furnace, while nasty, IS frenized, and can cause some serious problems because of that (if your opponent is savy enough).

In contrast, the ability to have a SECOND unbreakable unit (when combined with the Screaming Bell) makes for some very nasty potential.

So, I agree with my above conclusion. Competitive, but not overly broken. IMO at least.

I think Magic heavy with two solid unbreakable units is going to be tough to beat. I'd go with the double Plague Furnace over the screaming bell. A lot of magic will handle pesky skirmishers that try to draw out frenzied units.

The grossest thing is the Plague censor bearers. A special choice I remind you , at 160 points for a unit of 10. 40 plague censor bearers for 640 points ? Yes please ! 1 unit can dish out 18-21 attacks at strength 5 if going 6 or 7 wide. Oh, and don't forget all those toughness tests. Worst part is that they become stubborn if within 12 inches of furnace and can use the ranks of the unit pushing for leadership mod . Can you say Flank Protection anyone ? Only question is whether they test for stubborn on the unmodified leadership, being that they are not using the rule regarding the generals leadership. Maybe that'll be in the FAQ.

Throw in a couple of hellpit abominations, and your good to go.

For sure they can be very nasty if you go the clan pestilens way.

Don't know if other builds are as viable.

Only serious issue with the plague furnace is the lack of armor and/or ward save, which is kinda a draw-back to the entire clan-pestilence army.

Did they improve the Stormvermine?

The Bell was so wacky that I never had any interest in it. How has that been improved, if it at all?

Ratlin guns, can you hide them in a group of infantry like in the old system?

Did they make the tunneling better. I always felt it was unfair that Skaven suck at tunneling, they either get lost, the tunnel collapses or they fight each other. For me it was pointless to use this feature.

JerryB

Did they improve the Stormvermine?

The Bell was so wacky that I never had any interest in it. How has that been improved, if it at all?

Ratlin guns, can you hide them in a group of infantry like in the old system?

Did they make the tunneling better. I always felt it was unfair that Skaven suck at tunneling, they either get lost, the tunnel collapses or they fight each other. For me it was pointless to use this feature.

Storm Vermin are still not worth the points. WS 4 with either a ST.4 attack and 5+ armour or a strength 3 attack with 3+ armour. Big woop. Give me 2 more ranks of clan rats with a 4+ save for the same price. If you take Queek Headtaker, (who is a bad ass, but with no ward save) you can get a stormvermin squad that will hit on strength 5 I believe. But then their even more expensive.

The Bell makes the unit pushing it unbreakable, whereas before it was just Immune to Psychology. BIG difference. Other than than that, I think it's been toned down little bit in terms of the ringing. But you do get a big rat ogre that can help fight, which is nice. Not much else different.

Ratling guns can't hide in a unit, but if within 3 inches of parent unit they get a 4+ ward save I believe ? Which is nice. Problem is, the ratling gun was utterly nerfed (ala hellblaster volley gun), by having to roll for your hits now. and with BS 3.. you aint gonna be hitting shit.

Tunneling is a bit easier with the warp grinder, which is a tool you can buy that will allow you to re-roll the entry if something goes wrong. It's also a cc weapon that ignores armour saves.

Only serious issue with the plague furnace is the lack of armor and/or ward save, which is kinda a draw-back to the entire clan-pestilence army.

Yeah, with Clan pestilence your trading armour for toughness. Which, , statistically get's better, the higher the strength of the attacker, as armour saves cease to help. Particularly against strength 5 attacks.

But the nasty thing about the plague furnace is that it's going to be a prolonged combat (due to unbreakable) and EVERY round of combat your taking a bunch of toughness tests and damage from the wrecker

Every other unbreakable unit in the game is either individual monsters like Spawn, small units of expensive infantry like Flaggelants or TrollSlayers, or a unit joined by a special character, like that Lizard man that makes temple guard unbreakable.

With the plague furnace, you're paying 115 points for the priest and 150 for the furnace, plus another 175+ for the plague monks pushing. So it's going to be at least a 435 point unit. But in the end you get a massive tarpit unit that can win through combat res unlike most other tarpit units. You just have to protect it's flanks and make sure the furnace itself doesnt' get killed by blow guns, cannons, rocklobbers, etc.

It will have problems against artillery heavy armies that can dish out damage that does D3 or more wounds for sure. That's why the storm banner is an auto selection. Even if it's one use only, which still hasn't been errataed.

BTW what was the ruling on the storm banner in the last tournament. Did Luis or Brandon take it ?

I think it is just been accepted as 1 use until GW says otherwise.

Bill is correct, the ruling is 1 use only, since apparently every other language book says that, and ours doesn't.

Also, it makes sense, since it can now be taken with a unit instead of just the BSB.

does any one have a pyshical copy of said other books???

I like the book. Skaven was the first book that I picked up and it's the first Army that I've played.

In all honesty, the only unit that is worth taking all the time is the Hell Pit Abomination. At its point cost I say it's darned near the best thing in the entire Army book. It's strength and toughness are great, lots of wounds, regeneration and it attacks the enemy like a mo-fo. Not to mention it's stubborn, so it's great for charging into the enemy to rock them, even large packs of said enemy.

I take a Screaming Bell but to be honest, I hate the things you roll for. Rolling 3 dice is generally not going to get you much of anything to be honest. Spells of Ruin suck IMHO while the Spells of Plague are seemingly the rock of the army. Most of the spells in Plague are great, IE Wither, Plague, Pestilent Breath, all great spells when you get them off. Plague is devastating to most books with low toughness. And in combo with Wither, eat your heart out.

Overall I think it's a great book and is quite competitive. Being my first strike at Fantasy, I win just about half of the time and I'm a rookiee. Good army book, I look forward to the Beastmen book next week.

As an aside to the furnace? It's not that great without a save. The Bell gives itself and the Seer the 4+ ward save, IMHO it's a much better investment since the points are going to be monstrous. And both are Unbreakable. I push mine with 40 clanrats... the unit rocks just about everything it hits.

What model are you using for the Hell Pit abom ? And what base size ?

I'm using 'The Thing in the Woods' from Mordheim and it's on a monster base, although when I'm finished with the conversion it will have to be on a larger base, probably something like the Stegaddon base. You know, trying to model it just like the one from the book itself, with the cart and then the massive thing growing out of it.

Hey matt! Cesar here from the 40k tourney (Relictors Player) Glad to you and your bud joined the forums. Feel free to troll,post and flame whenever you feel the need. heh Hope to see you @ one of our 40k tourneys one of these days. Anyways take it ez.

--Cesar

Welcome to the fantasy forum!!!

So it seems the Bell is still not that great.

I always wanted to get the doom wheel, but I felt it would be pointless as it was not in the "official" rules, in otherwords you would have to ask permission to play it. I am glad to see they have included in the updated version.

JerryB

Yeah, the Bell is not so hot. Making a unit unbreakable that isn't good in close combat isn't so hot since you will just get widdled down quickly. And ringing the bell doesn't work so great because most rolls are useless. The 1 in a million time you get a 13 it's doubtful you'll be in CC.

The Doomwheel is great, it's quick, it shoots and hits hard. Don't count on it to win your battles in CC though with strength 2 attacks, if you don't do so hot on impact you're looking at losing the combat. Hit in the flanks.

Anyone else heard the nonesense in the UK stating that Warlord on War Little counts as US 5? They're saying even when he joins a unit he can be picked out by shooting. What a pile of garbage.

1 wound models turn him into standard calvary, so Warlord on a Great Pox rat, he is US2

Monster mounts, you take the monster US and add 1 for the hero, so on a Bonebreaker Rat - he is US5

Depends what a War Litter is and how many wounds it has. Army builder is not clear on this.

the plague furnace is much better than the bell IMHO, but then again it doesn't have a 4+ ward and is frenzied.

the bell got toned down a lot, its powers are not as strong as before and it doesnt give 2 power dice to the seer anymore. This was comopensated by granting Unbreakble and the 4+ ward to the seer.

I think the way to go now is Clan pestilence with some moulder support, Lord Skrol with plague monks as troops, couple of furnaces, 2 abom and specials full of plaguee sencer bearers is Ugly.

The new rules for the bell go against GW standard marketing practice.

GW should have given crazy cheesy powers to the bell, and then given a equal crazy price and sell a ga-zillion of them to the dumb Americans.

May be there are confused by their greed they have not yet realize the error. I am sure they will come around.

JerryB

If that was really their strategy, they have been failing at it for over a decade. New plastic kits have not equated awesome in game.

Kyle, buddy, you have finally realize and admitted that GW has been failing for the last ten years!

Welcome to reality!

JerryB