Chaos Daemons 2k

I'm nearing completion on my first 40k list. I need one more Daemon Prince model and some round bases.

HQ
2x Lord of Change
Daemonic Flight - Jump infantry
Soul Devourer - power weapons, leadership test or die
Bolt of Tzeentch - 24" S8 AP1 Assult 1
Daemonic Gaze - 24" S5 AP3 Assult 3

3x Daemonic Prince of Tzeentch
Daemonic Flight - Jump infantry
Soul Devourer - power weapons, leadership test or die
Bolt of Tzeentch - 24" S8 AP1 Assult 1
Daemonic Gaze - 24" S5 AP3 Assult 3
Unholy Strength - +1 S

4x5 Horrors of Tzeentch w/ Chaos Icons
1xBolt of Tzeentch - 24" S8 AP1 Assult 1
5xWarpfire - 18" S4 AP4 Assult 3

2x3 Flamers of Tzeentch
1xBolt of Tzeentch - 24" S8 AP1 Assult 1
3xWarpfire - 18" S4 AP4 Assult 3
3xBreath of Chaos - Template

While themed, I'm curious if I have enough punch to assult and/or withstand assult.
Once within 18" range for warpfire, I'm in danger of getting slammed by anything I don't kill or screen.

Would it be better to break mono-god theme and get some assult type troops (Khorne maybe)?
Any thoughts?

Seems a bit low on number of models.

Well it's only 26 25mm bases, but you have 5 monsterous creatures in the 2 LoCs and the 3 Princes.

LoC at T6 4W 3+ Invuln
Princes are T5 4W 4+ Invuln

I like the list, I like the monsters. Unfortunately for demons, its very difficult to come up with an entree. You get the meat of something but no sides.

To elaborate, you can either shoot really well or assault really well, adding bloodletters etc will just make you're list uncohesive and make for points tossed into the gutter in the opponent's shooting phase.

Big demons seems to be the way to go, if you could find a way to make them reroll their invulns, you'd be very, very difficult to beat.

The big demons are formidable, but the problem is the daemon summoning/entry rules. Since only a portion of your list comes in and the rest is a bit random, it can make things difficult as your dealing with very low number of figs coming in. Your big guys can fall prey more easily to combined fire and each loss will hurt big.

I like the themed nature of your list. As far as deamons are concerned, they don't do the whole "shooty" bit too well. They have some neat powers, but suffer from "all the eggs in one basket" syndrome as kyle pointed out. I'm curious though, how would you split up your 2 waves?

yea, it could work, but it relies alot on proper splitting...

I tried a couple of different lists today vs. Chris's Eldar and I got shot to pieces. The list above fared better than my mixed god list.

(2xLoC, 3xDP, 5x5PBs, 2x5Fiends)

I had bad luck with landing on target and getting the 2nd wave in during both games, but I seemed out-gunned regardless.

It seems Kyle is correct - I'm way too small.
I think I'll need to peel some upgrades off of the big guns and get a few more units in there.

KingdomCome wrote:I like the themed nature of your list. As far as deamons are concerned, they don't do the whole "shooty" bit too well. They have some neat powers, but suffer from "all the eggs in one basket" syndrome as kyle pointed out. I'm curious though, how would you split up your 2 waves?

Game 1 split
2xLoC, 1 Princes, 1 PB units (icon), 2 Fiend units
2 Princes, 4 PB units (1 icon)

Game 2 split
2xLoC, 2x Princes, 1 flamer unit, 1 horror unit (icon)
1 Prince, 1 flamer unit, 3 horror units (icons)

Chris had a bunch of S6+ shooting and so he was able to wound my T6 models rather easily.
I took heavy damage each turn and was only able to return small damage bursts.

It could just be a bad match up but Chaos Daemons are seen as one of the less competitive races. The big stuff pays what seems like way too many points for many of the upgrades. If you are going to go straight Tzeentch I would definitely use Fateweaver, he is the best thing in the book.

Strategy in 5th edition has got people doing the sort of deployment and maneuvering that made Chaos Daemons hard to deal with, now it is on the other foot. It is pretty easy to outmaneuver them or just make them go first and start in reserves.

Your list should be built to accomplish what you want it to do or be. If you want to play Tzeentch then pick those models, if you are really interested in winning consistently you probably will need a mix. It is going to be a massive challenge one way or another to win consistently with Daemons.

For unit selection think of what you want your units to do. Scoring? Probably need Plaguebeaers, they are the hardest to kill. Killing Tanks? Looks like we could use some Soulgrinders with Tongue but the Bolts will do ok against AV 10-12.

I'm trying to work with mostly what I own, so Soul Grinders I'd need to proxy.

Some of today had to be the matchup vs. Eldar. My fiend units never saw combat, nor did any PBs. I did much better vs. CSM and Space Wolves the 2 weeks past.

The hardest thing is starting with only half your troops when there is really nowhere to hide in 5ed.

Tzeentch are the only shooter units, so I think that is the way to go. I'm going leave the big monsters out and try the horde approach again. See how that goes.

This is built using a Wood Elf strategy know as MSU; or Multiple Small Units, which is designed around a avoidance and shoot 'em up strategy. Seemed pretty applicable here and I like the results.

4x Herald of Tzeentch
Master of Sorcery (use 2 shooting), Bolt, Gaze

6x5 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch
1xBolt

3x5 Flamers of Tzeentch
1xBolt

3x Daemonic Prince of Tzeentch
Bolt, Gaze

By switching from 2 LoCs to 4 Heralds and stripping out some icons and prince upgardes I was able to add in 10 more horrors and 9 more flamers.

16 Bolt attacks (24" S8 AP1)
21 S5 shots
90 S4 shots
45 S4 shots or 15 tear templates

Thoughts?

One problem I'm seeing with the list is 16 kill points, most resilience is a 4+ invuln... So it'll be difficult to push people off of objectives, and you're almost promised a loss in kill-point based missions. It'll be more difficult to kill the army as a whole, but remember that each unit is rolling for reserves individually, so there's a higher chance (with more units in the army) that they'll come in piecemeal.

Just my thoughts.

Piecemeal is the big issue. You start with 1/2 your army vs. a full enemy force.

Try and drop into cover and you risk the danger test or mishaps. So you have to even that out by popping in and doing immediate damage. Assult troops can't do this, so you need to take the Tzeentch shooting.

Tzeentch troops also have the best save. I don't see how you can play with any other chaos gods and succeed.

God pure Daemon armies are hard, unlike Chaos armies which are a bit more flexible.

You know, Demons are the one army I've NEVER seen on the battlefield

Is funny cause they are SOOOO overpowering in Fantasy is not even funny. You could randomly throw dice in the air over your shoulder and the army is still almost guaranteed to win.

@ Andre - Don't blink. You might miss it. I don't seem to last very long.

@ Lu - True, but not in 40k. It may even be the total opposite. I think I may be weaker than everyone.

Play against my Necrons. They will boost your self esteem like nobody's business :p

ShadowMaster wrote:@ Andre - Don't blink. You might miss it. I don't seem to last very long.

@ Lu - True, but not in 40k. It may even be the total opposite. I think I may be weaker than everyone.

From what I've read - they both sit pretty low on the power curve, so it would probably be a good matchup.

Let me know if you free Monday or Tuesday afternoon. I'm off both days.

I think I found a nice balance tonight.

2xLoC
3xDP Tz w/ Gaze and Bolt
6x5 Horrors w/ Bolt
3x3 Flamers w/ Bolt

Dropped 6 flamers and mixed the 4 Heralds back into 2 LoCs to leave some assult ability. The 3+ Invuln proved to be the difference today vs. C's Eldar. I made countless saves and eeked out my first win (1 objective to none)

Yes indeed that was a bloody battle. 3+ invul. of DOOOOOMMMMM!!!! I have easier times with TH/SH Termies. That was one heck of a display of dice rolling!

Hey what does that Soul Devourer do? I see you have it in your list, but I don't think you used it.

Soul Devourer is a standard ability on the LoCs which makes all close combat attacks power weapons and adds the additional requirement to pass a leadership test vs. any unsaved wounds or suffer instant death.

It didn't come up in our game

I like your new list, I think that is the way to go.