Are you a Scrub, or are you Playing to Win?

I think we've generally defined a powergamer as someone who is committed to winning at all costs.

We define " at all costs as" , rules lawyering to your benefit (veil of tears can't be negated with a psychic hood !) , finding areas in new rule books that have not yet been clearly defined and taking advantage of them (Whaddyamean I can't have a 10 inch radius wrecking ball? ), focusing on areas of a codex or army book that were poorly tested or planned resulting in a potential for abuse (hmmm I'll just take 3 units of Harlequins) , always playing with the more abusive, unbalanced parts of a list (whats wrong with having 15 assault cannons ?) , generally avoiding lists that focus more on the background aspects of an army according to the developers background fiction (fuck fire warriors I want 15 crisis suits !) , and during gaming, being generally much more concerned with winning than with focusing on whether or not you AND your opponent are having fun.

I don't think winning in itself is a good measure of whether someone is a powergamer. It's their attitude and mentality about how they approach the game.

A while ago Max presented another article about the use of measuring a false 12 inch deployment in order to decieve your opponent and giving you an edge to winning. To me, that is the essence of power gaming, finding a way to win whether it's right or wrong, accepted or unaccepted.

I do have to say though that some armies are very poorly tested and result in being somewhat Skewed towards powergaming. Necrons for instance. When's the last time you played against the Necrons with a lord who DIDN"T take a resurrection orb. When's the last time you played against a Necron army (at 1500 pts) that had NO monolith or NO c-tan. When's the last time you played against a Necron list that had No destroyers? On a competitve tournament level, the list is so poorly developed that you already KNOW what your facing before you even see your opponents army.

To sum it up people who power game are compensating for a small pee-pee ,the inability to attract members of the opposite sex...hell the same sex as wel or something they lack. They have to compensate for something their lacking in life by engaging in something competative and trying to win no matter what. Phil remembers that paste eater who played Mechwarrior. He only showed up to win the LE's. When the tournament was over wether he won or not he'd gloat and then leave because he would slowly start to fade back into nerd oblivion. I think he died a few years ago(seriously)...a virgin probably.

You're talking about James.. may he rest in peace. I beat him the fist time I played Mechwarrrior at Joels.

James? YOu are talking about the skinny guy that had a lisp?

NO, this was a different guy. he was doughy and obnoxious. they both died not too far apart from one another.

oh sorry, when you were talking about a geeky guy who gloated after winning mechwarrior and then died later on, I didn't know there were 2 of those guys.

mechwarrior must be a tough game

What about the middle, the person / people who wishes to promote the game, to teach new players the enjoyment of the hobby, and expand the gaming community. It doesn't have to be destroy at all cost, with the max humiliation.

Well, I havent been reading this thread until now just cause at first I thought it was part of Max's post-count plan.

Power-Gaming is a very relative term and a "power gamer" is very much dependent on the eye of the person your playing against. I agree with what Stephan wrote about abusing lists and such, I think that is a generally accepted rule but I think alot of it has to do with the attitude of how you play the game as well. I mean hell, you have to have a fully painted army to play at a GT or at some places so people get into that stuff and some might know the fluff but I'd still call them power gamers because they just are not fun to play against.

I mean lets face it, there's a very fine line between a well balanced, competitive list, and one which is considered "power-gamer" or "cheesy". What really makes or breaks it for me is the way my opponent plays. If we joke around, have a good time, and are fair and consistent with each other and I lose then it's a good game and while I may think they're list a little broken, it's not the end of the world. If the game is over by turn 2 (or turn 1 for some armies) and it was like my opponent was just being grimly efficient and shoots the mouth off afterwards it gets to be no fun and thats not the point of the game.

Just some thoughts that I had. I mean you have to be competitive, thats part of the game too, but you've also got to have fun, and thats the main point.

@Stephan

No this Fat kid bill is referring to was coincidentally named......JOEL. He was patronizing and had a complete lack of a sense of humor about him. As bill said, he'd come to cheese everyone out, take the LE that given night, and he was gone, like a nerd ninja.

Nerds are immortal.