The new dark elves are awesome!

I just got back from playing a game each against Sam and Chris, having won against both.

Now, I've only ever beaten Sam before once, and drawn once; its never easy playing against him, but the dark elf units were able to dismantle his elite units this time. My reapers shot and panicked his swordmasters, leaving them out of the game. The hydra protected my wooded flank from his white lions, breathing on them twice before finally being charged by a very depleted unit, and winning combat. The phoenix guard charged my corsairs or spearmen (can't recall), and then my assassin popped out and killed his entire front rank, winning me the combat. With his three elite blocks taken care of, that was the end.

Sam felt that the DE were almost designed to beat HE, and I have to agree. They are evenly matched in speed and shooting, but dark elf magic can outstrip the high elves and the assassins, striking first with 5-7 re-rollable attacks takes away their ASF advantage. Also, we can have chunky blocks of spearmen, meaning we even outnumber HE!

The assassin and shooting is great vs. T3 AS 5+ elves, but I think they'll have a much harder time against T4 armies. I don't feel DE are broken like VC or maybe daemons, but they are definitely a very competitive army.

edit: oh, and we have the coolest most broken ward save out there! its 35 pts, and you save the wound if you roll equal or under the strength of the attack! (6's always fail)

of course you don't think they're broke, because you're playing them.

play against them, and then re assess your judgment.

Well, I've played Chris, DE vs DE 3 times already. Does that count?

lol, yeah, they are the new broken army still not as broken as VCs though

that assasin kicks ass, the ability to get 7 attacks and ASF , AND rerroll misses, totally destroys anything charging a unit with an asasin in it. Not taking a character slot is insane. Is about time the high elves got a kick in their teeth

bah, the character slot isn't a problem, since their price stops me from having more than two at 2250 (for a total of 4 characters)

The assassins aren't the problem... it's here we go with another magically dominant army... you can totally tool them out to rule the magic phase. Sound Familiar anybody.?

What's going on GW? First VC's with their Invocation, then Demons, with all sorts of magical nastiness, and now Dark Elves , whose first level mages can cast spells using 5 dice, and if they need an extra powerdice, they can kill their local spearman.

Unless you bring at least 5 Dispel dice and 3 scrolls to the local tourney, you're screwed.

So how do you deal with an assassin? Do they hate everyone, or just HE? When they pop out, do they go to the front rank of the unit - or outside the unit like fanatics? Can they be targeted?

Would chariot impact hits go first (they go before HE ASF)? Would you impact the assassin or the unit? In leiu of shooting the assassin's unit into panic, chariots may be the best bet vs. the assassin unit.

They go to the front ranks when they pop out but have ASF and Int. 10. So you'd have to have some special magic item that makes the enemy always go last, to affect him

Impact hits are distributed like shooting, so the assassin could not be targeted.

The impact hits do go first however, so a chariot could help with combat res since the assassian is gonna lay the smack-down.

Yeah, GW is really focusing towards the magic phase nowadays, which is kinda sad IMO, particularly cause I don't like playing with much magic. I'm gonna have to figure out a way to load in some more dispell dice or something, then again alot has to do with the dice rolling.

Oh yeah, and DE are designed to beat HE, but try playing Chris's Dark Elves with your goblins and see how you like it

scurrdi wrote:Oh yeah, and DE are designed to beat HE, but try playing Chris's Dark Elves with your goblins and see how you like it

Fanatic catapult FTW ! either that or my 8 chariot army with 2 giants and 6 fanatics.

I know they get ASF, Hatred, and Poiso; but , what is the Assassin stats line?

Something I saw debated on another board.

Since the Hydra and handlers "move like skirmishers" - do they ignore difficult terrain penalties?

Assasins are WS 9, S 4, T 3, and with Rune of Khaine can get between 5-7 attacks. Other gifts of khaine can confer killing blow, 5+ ward, and poisons can allow them to get str one point above the victims toughness, up to S6. So yeah, they can be nasty, but struggle vs. armored foes. They are really problematic vs. high elves with mediocre saves and T3.

The handlers are ignored for practically everything, including movement and getting shot at.

Killing blow is a nasty combo for character killing... but any savvy player would take the challenge on a unit champion, unless they got a serious ward save.

You don't have to challenge, since you can pop anywhere in the unit, so you just place the assassin in front of the character

True dat... forgot about that .... wow.. look out for your characters when playing Dark Elves.

ASSASSINS
So, outside of nukeing/shooting and turning the unit - how would you take an assassin out?

HYDRA
If the handlers are ignored - does the Hydra suffer normal monster movement penalties for crossing difficult terrain?

Well, it's still just a T3 model with no save... I'm not going to get into a discussion of how to defeat my own army though!

The hydra does suffer normal movement penalties. It moves and sees etc like your giants, Bill.

I think that is the unit holding the assasin breaks the assains is either gone or has to be shown.
A skaven assasin could try to take one out, 5 attacks, with a sword that always strikes first and bands of power could MAYBE kill one.

Nah Luis, that's for night goblin fanatics! And you don't even have to reveal the assassin in combat (say if you charge me with skaven slaves hoping to draw out the assassin)

Whats the initiative on Skaven assasssins?

Diosamblet wrote:Nah Luis, that's for night goblin fanatics! And you don't even have to reveal the assassin in combat (say if you charge me with skaven slaves hoping to draw out the assassin)

Whats the initiative on Skaven assasssins?

Oh well, now i know

skaven assasin initiative is 8 with 4 attacks that are poisoned, bands of power.. if they go off.. gives him a strength 8, toughness 4. hes pretty tough. but expensive at 155 points

The Dark Elf assassin has ASF, with Initiative 10 and WS 9, plus 5-7 (on average) attacks re-rolling failed rolls to hit. He's a beast!

Yeah - with ASH and I10, the assassin goes before just about everything except impact hits. You can also kite them out with poison and other nasty stuff. Pretty sick for @150 points.

What if you hit the unit in the flank or rear? Can the assassin still pop to the combat flank and ASF your down?

i think they pop anywhere on the unit, so Dark elf units just became like High elf units....suicidal to charge, the answer is to shoot the shit out of them and chariots with impact hits, a lot of chariots