I finished Legion.

I finished Legion and from what I read they are Loyal to humanity. They never went traitor.

So if you mean they butcher IG companies as bait for ambushes. They also sow discord within the ranks of the imperium itself for 10,000 years. If you mean they stayed loyal THAT way....then, I guess they have. I think the book was meant to show that they are so good at what they do, that nobody can truly discern thier intent. I think they had the "signs" of being a fallen chapter, just as the emperor's children had, or the World Eaters, or the Word Bearers, Etc. Each traitor legion seemed to go beyond certain ethical bounds. Not to mention thier primarchs all seemed to have a bone to pick with the Emperor.

True, but Alpharius never showed any ill feeling towards the Emperor. They only do what they do after they are shown what will happen by the Autarch. Perhaps they fell after the Emperor was victorious and they had failed their mission. Again Throughout the entire book there is no indication that the Primarch has any grudge with the Emperor. Obviously 10000 years later Id have a hard time thinking they are still "undercover", but if that event hadnt taken place they would have been loyal during the heresy.

rokassan wrote:True, but Alpharius never showed any ill feeling towards the Emperor. They only do what they do after they are shown what will happen by the Autarch. Perhaps they fell after the Emperor was victorious and they had failed their mission. Again Throughout the entire book there is no indication that the Primarch has any grudge with the Emperor. Obviously 10000 years later Id have a hard time thinking they are still "undercover", but if that event hadnt taken place they would have been loyal during the heresy.

It's an interesting topic to you and I at least.

40k history.....with Bill and Phil.

I'm trying to think back since I just finished the latest one fairly recently but it seemed tome regaurdless of their good intent they where still following the guidence of foul zenos beings in turning against their own.

Yes I definatly agree in their own eyes that what they where doing was for the greater good.... no pun intended there of course but they still turned on their brothers rather than try to adress the issue directly with the emporer himself. I mean he is a Primach. rather than turn on his father he should have gone to the Emporer himself and tried to change the hand of fate in that way and at least warn his Emporer of the impending doom.

Needless to say that history is frounght with those that some would lable as traiter while others would say freedom fighter, liberator, or even patriot. It's all a question of loyalty in a sense. Where does your loyalty lie? With your poeple and the father who created you or with some Zenos selling his lies.

Just my two cents. but all in all a great read thus far.

The Battle for the Abyss has been alright...not nail biting or fantastic....but an alright read. I'll be done with it by the weekend Bill...If you want to borrow it.

I bought it.

Michaelharmon wrote:I'm trying to think back since I just finished the latest one fairly recently but it seemed tome regaurdless of their good intent they where still following the guidence of foul zenos beings in turning against their own.

Yes I definatly agree in their own eyes that what they where doing was for the greater good.... no pun intended there of course but they still turned on their brothers rather than try to adress the issue directly with the emporer himself. I mean he is a Primach. rather than turn on his father he should have gone to the Emporer himself and tried to change the hand of fate in that way and at least warn his Emporer of the impending doom.

Needless to say that history is frounght with those that some would lable as traiter while others would say freedom fighter, liberator, or even patriot. It's all a question of loyalty in a since. Where does your loyalty lie? With your poeple and the father who created you or with some Zenos selling his lies.

Just my two cents. but all in all a great read thus far.

I can tell you play Black Templars.

i dunno which way they fall but Legion was written very well and i thought it was an awesome book. Battle for the Abyss, to be honest, i thought was kinda gay and i HATED how they portrayed the word bearers and especially their leader. i felt that some of the characters were fleshed out well while others weren't.

I felt that the way that the author characterized the Alpha Legion was BADASS b/c all of us are still asking whether they are for or against the Emperor. after i read the book, i sorta felt that they were FOR since i never saw them lean towards any really "chaos-y" activities, aside from beaing super sneaky and using IG as fodder. IG and humans in general are just cannon fodder and aren't worth shit so if an Astartes kills one, who cares? on the other hand, when the Space Wolves killed a bunch of ppl when they were trying to save Horus, that was kinda fucked, but they were already on their way down.

in summary, i think the Alpha Legion turned to Chaos but their MOTIVATIONS for why they turned remained a mystery. i dunno how i feel about a "modern" day Alpha member who is already embroiled in chaos all of a sudden standing up and saying - oh i did this for the betterment of humanity! nah, the space marines serve the emperor, their father only - they have no loyalty to the human race per se over and above their Emperor so i do not think that the Alphas would go out of their way to save humans - they would do what is best for the Emperor.

Ya know Bill...

I was expecting a critique of whether you liked it or not. Instead you throw out a spoiler.... Thanks alot man.

"I can tell you play Black Templars." by rokassan

What can I say. Stay true to your chapter;) Anyway you should read the Armageddon series with the Templars. Good read and hard to find. I have them and would be willing to let someone borrow as long as I got them back as they are excellet and I want to keep them in my inventory.

As for Battle of the Abyss I really liked this play on Battle Fleet Gothic style ship combat written out because we don't see it all that much. I won't spoil anything but I definatly liked the book as well as some of the hardship played out between the main characters.

Ovich wrote:Ya know Bill...

I was expecting a critique of whether you liked it or not. Instead you throw out a spoiler.... Thanks alot man.

Oopps. Just read it man. You'll like it.

So, the two books in the series I would have to say were lacking.......Descent of Angels and Battle for the Abyss.

Forcefed24 wrote:So, the two books in the series I would have to say were lacking.......Descent of Angels and Battle for the Abyss.

+1

WTB a book, aside from Dark Apostle, that discusses the Word Bearers and doesn't make them look like a bunch of bitches.

Plague30 wrote:

Forcefed24 wrote:So, the two books in the series I would have to say were lacking.......Descent of Angels and Battle for the Abyss.

+1

WTB a book, aside from Dark Apostle, that discusses the Word Bearers and doesn't make them look like a bunch of bitches.

Those are the only books I have read regarding them.....they could have done an entire book on the culmination of thier betrayal, perhaps centered around Black Cardinal Erebus....how they turned...I think that would have been befitting...maybe around a loyalist Word Bearer who begins to lose the faith with which he drove himself. There were plenty of ways to illustrate THE legion that was the catalyst toward the downfall of the Great Crusade. They deserved more.

I agree wholeheartedly Phil. There is SO MUCH potential for badass books about the rejection of Lorgar's zealotry or The Word or Erebus, like you said. Without the Word Bearers, all the Chapters would still be pansy and loyalist and holding hands like the pansy Ultramarines.

One thing I DID enjoy about Abyss though, Phil, was Mhotep and how they portrayed the Thousand Sons. Mhotep was a bad mofo. World Eaters were pretty badass too. Zadkiel was a disgrace.

Long live The Word!

EDIT: Space Wolves also looked like bitches and weren't very fleshed out. Abyss could have been a wonderful addition to the HH if only the author would have focused and cleaned up a bit more, in my opinion.

I've read every single book of the horus heresy and own the entire collection and have re-read each of them with a fine tooth comb, must say Alpha Legion did not go traitor as a lot of people imagine they did, Fulgrim was a dirty whore that couldnt overcome the power of chaos...your and EFFING PRIMARCH! The Word Bear's could suck a nut and got their shit rocked by the Ultramarines along with the World Eaters and Space Wolves...now the space wolves never killed a human while trying to save horus...who ever said that comment is thinking of the Lunar Wolves, just and FYI, Descent of Angels lacked what i really wanted which was some good battle scenes, but it reads alot into why they do the things they do.

So far i've been a fan of each and everybook could they have a been a bit better of course!

By the way if you havent read then yet grab any greyknight book you can their effing fantastic.

I will agree Mhotep was a fucking trooper...heh thats one BMF.

DarkAngel_Cesar wrote:I've read every single book of the horus heresy and own the entire collection and have re-read each of them with a fine tooth comb, must say Alpha Legion did not go traitor as a lot of people imagine they did, Fulgrim was a dirty whore that couldnt overcome the power of chaos...your and EFFING PRIMARCH! The Word Bear's could suck a nut and got their shit rocked by the Ultramarines along with the World Eaters and Space Wolves...now the space wolves never killed a human while trying to save horus...who ever said that comment is thinking of the Lunar Wolves, just and FYI, Descent of Angels lacked what i really wanted which was some good battle scenes, but it reads alot into why they do the things they do.

So far i've been a fan of each and everybook could they have a been a bit better of course!

By the way if you havent read then yet grab any greyknight book you can their effing fantastic.

I will agree Mhotep was a fucking trooper...heh thats one BMF.

I disagree with your assessment of The Word Bearers and the World Eaters. Abyss was an overall kinda shitty book. Descent of Angels blew pretty hard.

I always confuse the Space Wolves with the Luna Wolves but I hope you caught my meaning.

You have the benefit of playing as the Yankess...er Space Marines so, of course, you have tons of good books about their background and they are constantly fellated all over the place by GW. It's OK. You root for the frontrunners, the Yankees and A-Rod and the rest of those douchebags. I'm a Dolphins fan, I root for the underdog and I lose more than I win, but boy do I love Ricky Williams!

In the same right i can say your a yankees lover that being said chaos is your yankees and a-rod lover as well, Descent of Angels blew pretty hard why exactly?

Battle for the Abyss sucked because they didn't portray the word bearers correctly?

Oh and if you ever call me a yankees fan were going to have some serious issues, as the yankees can suck a cock, Marlins fan and Dolphins fan for life mother fucka!

DarkAngel_Cesar wrote:In the same right i can say your a yankees lover that being said chaos is your yankees and a-rod lover as well, Descent of Angels blew pretty hard why exactly?

Battle for the Abyss sucked because they didn't portray the word bearers correctly?

Oh and if you ever call me a yankees fan were going to have some serious issues, as the yankees can suck a cock, Marlins fan and Dolphins fan for life mother fucka!

Take it easy Cesar...I can tell you why Descent of Angels blew donkeys.....It delved too much into the FOUNDING of the chapter and not their role in the HERESY. This book should have been standalone outside of the scope of the Horus Heresy. We were bascially lied to in the fact that it somehow moved the Horus Heresy story along as the others books have...it was disjointed and it DRAGGED along man.....I had no problem with the Dark Angels before that book....but they surely became a boring chapter in my eyes for the turd of a book that I was tricked into reading.

I can understand if you are a bit Biased. But I think Plague 30 isn't entirely wrong in his estimation that you back the good guys, the winners....whereas Chaos is the perennial underdog. If you disagree with that fact, look at the outcome of the heresy itself....

The outcome of the Heresy is 50/50 The Emperor is retard on a throne and horus got killed but too me it looks 50/50.

Now i agree that the Descent of Angels was a bit dragged but it dose what it needed too, it set the book up for the *Fall of Caliban* which is to come out after *Mechanicus* which releases in december, so were looking sometime in june maybe? Fucking Black library..but! i wasant mad @ Plauge for what he said...just cause he called me a yankee lover and i reallly reallllly realllllllly fucking hate the yankees, One! Because im a Boston Fan and Two Because im a Marlins fan and 3! Because well...their the fucking Yankees! LoL

---Cesar

I wonder if in the Dark Angels next installment when Lucious betrays Lion it will go into the fluff where the Dark Watcher's move the Lion's body into a secret Champer of the Rock (IE. the Dark Angels fortress in space that is actually a piece of the planet) where he is simply sleeping until he is needed again.... Got the Angels of Darkness Codex from the early edition and thats in there. Thought it was interesting if no one's seen it I can bring it by sometime.

Bring it Mike! I havent seen it

No worries. Covers the blood angels and the dark angels in it. Very cool. I'll call the Silver Dragon tomorrow and if they have the new White Dwarf in I'll stop by after i get off shift at noon and drop her off so you'll have it while I'm on leave up state.

your the effing man mike! I'll swing by afterwork and pick it up from Izzy, heh.


--Cesar