League Thoughts

Hey guys,
I know a lot of you (including myself) have started in on your warpacks/battleboxes/HUGE eBay wins. You have models together, some painted (JC), you have played games.
Joel is talking about an Escalation League @ Sunshine, where you would start with a small force, then after 2-3 weeks you would bring a bigger force, then finally you would bring a full out army.
I also know a lot of you have placed orders with Joel for his Black Friday Sale and this will be your first purchase into the Warmachine/Hordes world. You will need a day (at least) to a couple weeks to get your models together and get an idea on the rules.
I also know that the holidays are upon us which will limit the amount of time and commitment we are able to give.

What I'm asking is when/how would you guys like to start a league? Do you want to start like Escalation? Do you want to start with all troop types allowed or Tooth & Claw/Mangled Metal (caster+jacks/beasts only)?

My suggestions would be to start with Toocth & Claw/Mangled Metal @ 350 points for one or two weeks. Third week still @ 350 allow solos and units. Fourth week bring it up to 500 points. 9th week bring it up to 750 points. I would suggest some form of win/loss record keeping and we can post up the standings here.

thoughts?

I would say that you have the right idea Ray. I've been reading the rules alot and they are complex. so having a few weeks with just beasts and jacks would make sense. Maybe we should expand the amount of weeks at 350 in which we alllow infantry and solos, before moving to 500 ,so that people can get the hang of using them. Some factions seem to thrive on beasts/jacks only while others do not, and if people want to try out different warcasters/warlocks they should be able to tinker with their effect on various unit types as well, not just beasts and jacks.

For instance. I have Morguhl who is primarily a assassin/beastmaster type, but i'm also getting Makeda who is much more effective with troops, as is Xerses who I'm also planning on purchasing. I'd like to be able to try those guys out and play to their strengths at some point, even at the 350 level.

Maybe a 4 tiered escalation?

Tier 1: 350 Mangled Metal/Tooth & Claw - Warlocks/Warcasters and Jacks/Beasts only
Tier 2: 350 No restrictions, all models allowed, units, solos, beasts, minions, 'jacks, casters.
Tier 3: 500 points no restrictions
Tier 4: 750 points no restrictions

2-3 weeks per tier?

I do not think an escalation league is a good idea. League play is for fun and should be accessible to all players. By escalating the points, you are forcing players to buy more product in order to participate when they might not want to or be financially incapable of doing so.

League play is any point total as agreed by both players. Since the WM/Hordes community is in its fledgling state here in S. Florida, I would recommend to new people to shoot for a 350pt list and then from there a 500 point list.

Any veteran player or player with alot of figures can quickly and easily throw 350pts together to scrap it out. At these low point levels, it allows you to learn the subtleties and nuances of your caster and different units and models.

The next official Privateer Press league begins in February and has scenario play at any point level agreed by both players (350, 500, 750, 1000, 1500, 2000, etc). Ill set one up at Sunshine if you all would like.

Gabriel Alonso
Press Ganger

Gabriel,
How would starting at 350 and building up to a bigger army be any different from an Escalation league? I don't see the difference.

yeah, they both sound the same to me as well. I also dont understand how it would work. Do we start at 350 and then gradually go up to 750? Do i have to play at 350? My main concern is do I have to keep the same original warcaster? Sorcha is great at 500 (well any level), but at 750 or higher I prefer eIrusk or eVlad (PAULDRONS!!!!!!!!!).

You would play at the level we all would be playing at at that point. start at 350, then add the other units, then bring it up to 500 then 750. you could change you list each game if you like.

sounds good to me. however, I fear that the worst thing might happen. And that crime is "metagaming." I know I would be tempted to metagame against people who I am facing. For ex. against Art and Laz, I would play Widowmakers to get rid of 1 hitpoint models. Against Frawgg who fields nothing but multi-hit point models, i wouldn't field them.

I'd be very interested in an escalation league.

plodolo wrote:sounds good to me. however, I fear that the worst thing might happen. And that crime is "metagaming." I know I would be tempted to metagame against people who I am facing. For ex. against Art and Laz, I would play Widowmakers to get rid of 1 hitpoint models. Against Frawgg who fields nothing but multi-hit point models, i wouldn't field them.

You know, I don't see a problem with Metagaming in WM/H. If you take one thing that will slaughter something of mine, i should be able to take a different model which can put yours in check. And if you bring a knife to a gunfight, it's your own damn fault.

Gabriel's idea of starting an official league in February sounds best. This will give everyone plenty of time to get their lists ready, playtest, and become familiar with the rules. I believe PP gives price support for official league play. Gabriel should be able to tell us more about the rules and scenarios for league play.

- Art

Ray,

I think Gabriel was trying to make the point that in escalation leagues, once the league moves on to larger and larger point games, those people who do not have the funds to collect larger armies will be left in the dust.

While there seems to be some validity to this argument I would counter argue and say, Who's gonna wanna play someone at 350 when you've already been playing for a while at 500 and 750 points. It's the player's responsibility , if they want to be able to game with others in the community to put some of their resources into creating a larger army over time. If this is truly impossible because of financial constraints, then the person needs to get used to playing other beginners who have not built up their armies, or those people who are willing to play at 350 just as a change of pace. I don't know how I'll feel myself about playing WM at 350 pts after I've been used to playing 500 -1000 pts games. I do know that I've moaned and groaned before about having to play 40k with someone at 750 pts, because they didn't have the models for a regular game.
In my opinion , more points = more complexity, which is what I find most stimulating.

dork_jedi wrote:

plodolo wrote:sounds good to me. however, I fear that the worst thing might happen. And that crime is "metagaming." I know I would be tempted to metagame against people who I am facing. For ex. against Art and Laz, I would play Widowmakers to get rid of 1 hitpoint models. Against Frawgg who fields nothing but multi-hit point models, i wouldn't field them.

You know, I don't see a problem with Metagaming in WM/H. If you take one thing that will slaughter something of mine, i should be able to take a different model which can put yours in check. And if you bring a knife to a gunfight, it's your own damn fault.

Obviously, but if there is like a set list or whatever, then we won't have people going. "If I play Menoth, I'll field widowmakers, but if I play Trolls, I won't." That's what I mean.

Ovich got my point. I also understand his.

You dont want to prevent players from joining our crew because they cant afford to buy 500 points right away. Escalation forces them to buy alot of product pretty quickly in order to keep up. Not to mention they have to build it which also takes some time.

With the way the economy is, many people don't have that much disposable income to drop a hundred or so every couple of weeks.

For players that want to play larger, I think we have enough players that have 500+ points of stuff. So if you are looking for a challenge and more complexity, seek out those players. However, if you show up and there only a few guys with 350 points you can scale down if you want to play. Everyone wins.

To dork jedi -

WM/Hordes has a good learning curve, especially if you have never played a tabletop miniatures game. Playing at 350pt for a while let you learn the subtleties and nuances of your caster/lock and some basic jacks/beast and unit combinations. You learn how to allocate focus or use fury, when to boost to hit or for damage, control range, slams, throws, how to use spells an animi, etc. Once a player has got the hang of it, they can change casters or add some solos or additional units. Learning the game takes time (except for addicts like us - but everyone isnt like us). Jumping quickly to 500pts can be a bit overwhelming.

I suggest letting everyone play at the level they are comfortable - 350, 500, or 750.

Gabriel, Stephan, ok, I understand now.

@ Gabriel - What is the tracking format from PP?
I have seen "pyramid' ladders and stuff for tracking methods and I like them alot. the one caveat I have regarding them is that they MUST be prominently displayed in the store. Players need to know who's the top dog (er, Troll ). I think it builds good competitive spirit.
I don't like Joel's tracking system because it's blind to the players. They have no reason to fight other than to get to their 200 points, which may or may not be accurately tracked the players don't know because it's kept in a notebook behind the counter.

Yes there is a Leaderboard. Everyone gets a card that they fill out and you move the cards up and down the Leaderboard as people play their games. At the end of the league you can win a variety of different medals (each has its own requirements) and possibly a prize if the store charges an entry fee.

Here is an example:

http://store.privateerpress.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=8391

I see your point Gabriel... I suppose I'm just thinking of things from the 40k point of view.

Always allowing someone the option of playing at 350 seems smart enough.