Sign up for Fantasy on 3/1/09

Matt and I are running the Tourney. We're both playing also.

2250 point lists. Painting Competition at the beginning. We are playing on an honor system here folks since lists can't be checked until after the games are done. So let's just all be honest fellows and play without cheating.

I'll leave the issue of Army Comp up for a vote. We can

A. Play with no army comp
B. Play with the army comp list I used for the last tournament
C. Play with some other way of doing army comp.


Sign up HERE and let us know how you feel about the comp.

IN

Vote - No comp

In, obviously...

A fair Comp. system is really hard to devise, especially one that everyone likes. I'm not in favor of the comp. list Stephan came up with for last tournament, because it still allowed for dual flamer units plus the steam tank and pope mobile armies to get good scores (those are the two army lists that bothered me. Chris' Malekith wasn't fun to play against, but he did get a hefty comp. hit)

So I'd like to hear ideas for a comp system from everyone.

im in.

also i vote for C.

I'd like to throw out there something interesting. This was something I was hoping to do for the summer but maybe you guys can think about it.

Why not have it be more like a "fluff" score. Write up a story about your army, where it is, why it's there, and what it would have in it. Then, you have to make your army based off of your fluff. I think would create some interesting and balanced lists, but maybe this is me being overly optimistic.

With this idea, people would have to justify why alot of stuff might be in there armies (for example, monsterous creatures, or an Arch Lector, of which there are like 3). Just a thought to consider.

Sign me up!

-no comp

While Malekith wasn't fun to play against (or tough..), he's 900pts on a dragon. Built in army comp right there.

Im in !

Vote - Comp is the Debil !!

I don't play fantasy but I know one thing based on years of experience.

Comp doesn't work, it never has and it never will. It always ends up penalizes some races that aren't so hot and boosts others with killer lists and doing just about nothing to alot of other races. Tournaments are competitive by nature. Look up the definition if you don't believe me. People are going to do whatever it is legal to perform as well as they can and no one should expect anything less. Sportsmanship takes care of bad conduct and that is enough, comp is an attempt to control what naturally occurs. Doing that is always doomed to fail.

Like Chris said anything outrageous usually has a counter or is inherently unbalanced. If you want things to be fluffy run a narrative campaign and hope people get into the fluffy side of things. The closest thing you could do to comp that would have the desired effect is making certain selections illegal(like dragons or GDs, though they are not even close to broken) and putting a limit of 1 choice per unit. This is like rewriting all of the codexes for GW and it probably solves none of the problems inherent in the game enviroment.

posted to the calendar. Can we get a bit more info?

Start time?
Player limit?
Entry fee?
Prize support?
Special rules?
anything else you can think of...

Diosamblet wrote:In, obviously...

A fair Comp. system is really hard to devise, especially one that everyone likes. I'm not in favor of the comp. list Stephan came up with for last tournament, because it still allowed for dual flamer units plus the steam tank and pope mobile armies to get good scores (those are the two army lists that bothered me. Chris' Malekith wasn't fun to play against, but he did get a hefty comp. hit)

So I'd like to hear ideas for a comp system from everyone.

My flamers are taking that personal

WC_Brian wrote: run a narrative campaign

I'd REALLY like to do a campaign...

We tried doing a campaign once, but i think it got a bit out of hand and people started not showing up.
I like them though, it makes the game that much more fun.

How bout this for the tourney, like someone mentioned before make it a fluff campaign, have evryone write some type of bacground for their army and name their characters.

How bout this for bonus points:
Name a champion in the army, for evry character that champion kills you get +1, +2 if killed in a duel.

Vengance: "a great wrong has been done to your nation and the king has selected a unit to exact revenge on the enemy" pick one of your rank and file units and nominate one of the enemy rank and file units, your unit now hates that unit. If you unit kills the enemy unit you get +3 points.

Wizard hunt: "the enemy mages must be slained for victory to be yours" for every enemy mage killed you gain +1 vp.

The true Faith: "the heathens must be put to the sword and your Gods are with you in this task" each army gets 3 "faith" tokens that can be used at any time to rerroll any result, after the rerroll roll a D6, on the roll of one take D3 Wounds as the Gods punish you for failing in your task.

some crazy ideas to spice up the games.

I'm all for the scenarios Luis - GW or made up within the group.

I don't really have time for the term paper assignment. I'd prefer if we skip that part.

Ok,

so, No comp it is. But then let's make sure that even though there will be lots of CHEEZE around, let's leave the WHINE at home.

There is no entry fee

Be there by 1130 am

10 person limit

Prize support = 55 for first 30 for second, 20 for third, 5 for everyone else

and 20 bucks to the painting winner.

Stephan, instead of saying "no comp score, so bring on the cheese", why not make it something akin to the honor system? Meaning, nobody's gonna be looking at your list to see if it's cheesy; instead we as tournament organizers ask each player to bring a list that while competitive, is not abusive.

Well, that's the chigger in the wood pile isn't it. Once again, the subjective nature of the game comes into play. What one person may consider somewhat abusive, another person may think it's not too bad. In fact we've seen that before. I might bring a wood elf list with 4 units of Glade guard and 2 Treemen and the guy with the Orc army might say it's cheezy, but the guy with Brettonian list may say... meh, that's not so bad.

So I think that if you allow people to bring whatever they want, you have to expect that people are going to play with some crazy lists. Because not only are powerful lists good to win with, but many times, they are also fun to play with. I've played many a fun game where both my opponent and I played with very competitive lists. Look at Ard boyz, even though everyone who goes would like to win... it's also fun.

Ovich wrote:Well, that's the chigger in the wood pile isn't it. Once again, the subjective nature of the game comes into play. What one person may consider somewhat abusive, another person may think it's not too bad. In fact we've seen that before. I might bring a wood elf list with 4 units of Glade guard and 2 Treemen and the guy with the Orc army might say it's cheezy, but the guy with Brettonian list may say... meh, that's not so bad.

So I think that if you allow people to bring whatever they want, you have to expect that people are going to play with some crazy lists. Because not only are powerful lists good to win with, but many times, they are also fun to play with. I've played many a fun game where both my opponent and I played with very competitive lists. Look at Ard boyz, even though everyone who goes would like to win... it's also fun.

I've always felt that one of the "perks" of running a tournament, is that you get to be the one to decide what's cheesy or not. If someone doesn't like your interpretation (I liked the way you put it out there in with your last couple of "comp hit" lists) they can live with it, not play, or run a tournament themselves. I've never made apologies for any list I brought, nor any decisions I've made while running a tournament -- it ain't as easy as some people might think. The Aussies do it that way (the 6 man comp council makes the ruling -- if you don't like their ruling, tough). So, collect input, but ultimately, the organizer has the right to make a decision -- Stephan had the best compromise, in that he put it out there before you made your list with his +/- system. He could have kept it to himself and hammered everyone who didn't know what would be cheesy and what wouldn't.

At any rate, best of luck to all of you. Hope it goes well.

Do whatever works for you guys, but he's got a point.

I personally liked the +/- system, but hey, maybe thats why I like FOW more now.

Im in ,but what the fuck do you mean no army comp? Lord Whigsplitter is confused.

Wow TO's who like to be tough guys. You all are nuts, just play the game and stop trying to project your values on others. Can we go to church after the tournament?

No entry fee? I thought everyone liked more prize support.

Brain thanks for your opinion, but unless your playing you don't get a vote on the comp system we are going to use.

WC_Brian wrote:Wow TO's who like to be tough guys. You all are nuts, just play the game and stop trying to project your values on others. Can we go to church after the tournament?

No entry fee? I thought everyone liked more prize support.

Well personally I always wanted to organize a tournament so I could abuse my power and tyrannize my fellow gamers with unbending rules interpretations. I'm in for going to church as long as there's coffee and cookies.

I can't go to church my skin would begin to burn. Ok so my question wasn't answered, what do you mean no composition. I assume that means people field what they like? Its like a tournament version of Apoc. If that's what it is I have reservations. I don't feel like spending the day getting beat down by abusive bullshit lists. I don't have enough experience to deal with that. I take no interest in building cheese armies. Why don't you stick with interesting scenario's and objectives. There will be enough rules exploitation going on and there's no need to open the bullshit floodgates.

Composition is a score based on how abusive or "soft" your army is. No Comp score means you can bring whatever you like as long as you follow your army list. So I could bring, say, a Slann, 3 Engines of the Gods, 4 Stegadons and 2 Ancient Stegadons, as long as I have the points for it and the minimum 3 units of core troops.

The other option is coming up with a (scoring) system that penalizes players who bring abusive stuff, but we don't have any consensus on what a fair system can be.

I'm gonna wait to see if the 40k tourney is happening on the 28th. If it doesn't I'm in. I haven't played 40k in a year and a half.