Interest in Flames of War

Hey all, I was just wanting to throw this out there to get some feedback from people that don't play Flames of War. We have a pretty large community of gamers here in Miami, yet the Flames of War community is still small. For those that don't play, why is that? Does the historical theme not appeal as much as fantasy or Sci-fi? The cost of getting into another game? Or what? I'm just curious is all.

Thanks,
Hurricane

sadly I'm not in Florida long enough to get into other games, so I just stick to fantasy.

I've considered getting into Flames of War, but i decided to put it off for now and work on Imperial Guard army.

I am interested, from all I've read and heard about it it's supposed to be a very good system balancing the fine line between historical accuracy and gaming entertainment, but a few things stop me:

1.) I'm invested (financially and time-wise) in my Hordes army,
2.) I'm thinking of starting a Warmachine army
3.) I'm interested in getting into other games (Aeronautica Imperialis, Uncharted Seas)
4.) Time periods. I've been told that people mainly play mid-war, but I would be worried that I buy a crapload of models and rules and stuff then people move to Late War or Early war.
5.) I'm not sure about how armies play. I like the mental image of the Russian penal batallions performing a human wave under Order 227 but as it happened in 1942-1943 i think it falls in early war aand i haven't seen an army list for it.
6.) Everyone seems to either play the Germans or the Americans. I can't say I've seen any posts on here of any Russian players (i think perhaps Bill plays Italians) no free French players, Brits, i know JC had his Colonial Brits (but he's lost to the warp for now), no Canadians, Romanians, Poles, (are all these factions even available?)
7.) When I think of WWII, I think of the savage street fights that took place in Stalingrad and the battles that took place in the Bocage area of Normandy, and of course the storming of Normandy (granted, the last two took place at the trailing end of the war) and the tables I've seen are generally a field and a farmhouse. (N. Africa doesn't interest me in the least, nor does the ground war in the Pacific theatre [which also isn't supported by Battlefront yet])

sorry about the long answer, hope that helps some

Let me answer a few of your questions here..

4.) Time periods. I've been told that people mainly play mid-war, but I would be worried that I buy a crapload of models and rules and stuff then people move to Late War or Early war :
That i've seen nobody ever plays Early war, most of the games are Mid War and there has been a swin lately to play Late War. The good thing is that a lot if not all of the units you use in Mid War can be used for Late War.

5.) I'm not sure about how armies play. I like the mental image of the Russian penal batallions performing a human wave under Order 227 but as it happened in 1942-1943 i think it falls in early war aand i haven't seen an army list for it:
Well lets see how i can do this:
Soviets are your typical Horde army, lots of different choices, they are cheap and die quick, they have a saying "The quality of quantity" they die quick, but they are fanatics so they wont break very often.
Germans: Tough, small in number but more than make up in killines, toughest armor units arround and almost impossible to take out once they dig in to defend a position.
Americans/Brits/italians: not very familiar with them, but i think they are the middle guys, they can perform all jobs well and have no noticeable weaknesses that i see ( well, italians get some really crappy armor )

6.) Everyone seems to either play the Germans or the Americans. I can't say I've seen any posts on here of any Russian players (i think perhaps Bill plays Italians) no free French players, Brits, i know JC had his Colonial Brits (but he's lost to the warp for now), no Canadians, Romanians, Poles, (are all these factions even available?):
Well, of the top of my head, Stefan plays Soviets/italians, Bill plays Germans/Italians, Don plays Soviets/Germans, Will plays Americans, Eric plays Germans, Mat plays Germans...not sure who elese plays what. That i know off nobody plays finns, hungarians, canadians.

7.) When I think of WWII, I think of the savage street fights that took place in Stalingrad and the battles that took place in the Bocage area of Normandy, and of course the storming of Normandy (granted, the last two took place at the trailing end of the war) and the tables I've seen are generally a field and a farmhouse. (N. Africa doesn't interest me in the least, nor does the ground war in the Pacific theatre [which also isn't supported by Battlefront yet]):
You can easely make a city fight board, infantry has no penalty moving over terrain so it can get ugly real fast.

dork_jedi wrote:I am interested, from all I've read and heard about it it's supposed to be a very good system balancing the fine line between historical accuracy and gaming entertainment, but a few things stop me:

1.) I'm invested (financially and time-wise) in my Hordes army,
2.) I'm thinking of starting a Warmachine army
3.) I'm interested in getting into other games (Aeronautica Imperialis, Uncharted Seas)
.
5.) I'm not sure about how armies play. I like the mental image of the Russian penal batallions performing a human wave under Order 227 but as it happened in 1942-1943 i think it falls in early war aand i haven't seen an army list for it.

sorry about the long answer, hope that helps some

what kind of financial crisis would i be putting myself into (ballpark) if i were to get into FoW with a Russkie army?

Rulebook(s)
Templates
Army (normal point cost, heavy infantry, some armor, is there a way to create a penal batallion?)

dork_jedi wrote:what kind of financial crisis would i be putting myself into (ballpark) if i were to get into FoW with a Russkie army?

Rulebook(s)
Templates
Army (normal point cost, heavy infantry, some armor, is there a way to create a penal batallion?)

Here is the link to the website with the Soviet units , for some reason is on New Zeland dollars, but you get an idea if you can convert it and Joel always gives you the discount. Good thing about the game is that you can create many diff types of forces, Armored, motorized infantry, infantry, Penal, Cozacks, i like the codex books because they break them down into what you can add to each company and how many.

To answer a couple questions a little further (though Luis did a great job with it):

Yes there is a new penal army you can play for Russians, I believe it is under the new "Hammer and Sickle" book.

As far as armies are concerned, Germans are the most common axis since there is no Pacific theater and the Italians are only Mid-War. Mostly speaking any army you choose will for the most part (roughly 90% or so) transfer over to Late-War very well.

Battlefront (the guys who make FOW) does have an official rule system out for Early War yet, but they are working on it. Generally the only model issues come with tanks, your infantry remain the same. That being said, your T-34s should be fine (for Russian tanks if thats what your thinking).

Money-wise I don't think it's a huge sink, particularly if you start small and build your way up. Several guys have multiple armies so you can always ask them to bring one in and you can try them out to see who you like best.


Just some thoughts to consider.

Eric has Brits/German Para's
I have Italians,Late War Germans and U.S. Para's.

Ray any theater is fun to play. North Africa can have cities ect. The Hungarians,Finns,Romanians and all the colonials have rules and armies. If you invest you wont regret it.

The Russians have a shit load of troops to field...its alot of painting.

I've also realized the terrain issue Ray, and I think thats just a product of who's playing the games at Sunshine. The norm is not really to have a small amount of terrain on the field, its actually quite the opposite.

Go check out any of my battle report in the FOW section. I've got pictures up of boards at other places and they look fantastic. I'm hoping that we can continue to build the terrain at Joel's so that more of our boards can look that way, since for me thats one of the big draws to the game.

Stay On Target!

So if I want to play I have to buy the main rulebook (obviously), a theater book with army guidelines (say Ostfront), templates and models.

Which theater books do you guys recommend.

Right now, Battlefront is working on late war stuff. As such most people are playing late war and the US national tournament later this year is late war. I would recomend getting the Festung Europa Book as it has all the basic armies in late war. However, if you know exactly what army you want to collect you might want to get one of the smaller books like Cobra. Cobra has rules for the American Armies fighting in the break out of Normandy. Units like the 2nd and 3rd Armored Division and the German SS Panzer Divison that fought against them. There are many other smaller more specialized army books but they aren't necessary. Hope that helps.

Eric

The flames of war website has some PDF files for some of the more obscure forces that fought in late war and those are free. You would need the Festung Europa book because that has the vehicle stats and stuff like that. For example, there is a PDF for late war Italians that you can download for free. And they just put out some information that I liked on German Paratrooper Units that fought in Normandy. Really some cool stuff. And tons of historical articals to give you some ideas of what you might like.

I downloaded the main rulebook this weekend (will go up on the share as soon as I can) and the North Africa campaign book. Looking for a copy (pdf) of Stalin's Onslaught, Hammer and Sickle, and Ostfront to read up

Well, make sure your not switching periods Ray.

Ostfront is MW, whereas the other two your mentioning are LW. Just something to remember, otherwise your okie dokie.

The russians got some nice stuff, and they have another book coming out in May.

ok, I downloaded and started reading Ostfront and the Rulebook and I'm thoroughly confused and feeling wicked retarded.

I was never into IG so the whole force organization seems really foreign to me since playeing 40k.
Could someone please explain to me how to organize an army?

I don't remember seeing a cost per squad (base?), so if I want to include more squads to a platoon how much more points will they cost me?

I plan on getting into flames of war at some point but I just dont have the coinage to drop just yet. Thankfully though I have a ton of 15mm WWII tanks from the axis and allies minis though so that helps.

Ok, here's the basic layout of how it works for Ostfront:

FOW is broken down into 3 different types of platoons you can buy. It doesn't work like in 40k where you buy individual models, you buy platoons (usually at their half strength or full strength).

The 3 types of platoons are: Combat Platoons, Weapons Platoons, and Support Platoons.

Combat Platoons are the core component of your army. So for example, if you are wanting to play an American Infantry Company, your combat platoons will consist of infantry platoons. For a tank company, tank platoons, etc.

Weapons Platoons are the platoons that are integral additions to your combat platoons. These usually consist of things like Mortar Platoons, Anti-Tank Platoons, or Recon Platoons (depending on what force, etc.).

Support Platoons are the divisional support that is loaned out to you for that particular mission. This includes aircraft, combat platoons from other companies, heavy artillery, etc.

You will also need to buy an HQ, who usually has one or two attachments available.


Now, hopefully I can explain this over the forums, though Ray I suggest you get together with someone and they can show you, because the grid is very visually oriented.

When you look at buying a platoon, there will be several costs as well as some pictures of little men. For right now lets say that we are looking to buy a German Grenadier Platoon (from Ostfront).

The numbers will correspond to the "squads." For example, it will say "Grenadier platoon with 2 squads = 140 pts" The squad refers to a number of little men, which are grouped into little bubbles. The titles of these bubbles refer to the "squads."

I don't know if that helped at all, but I would suggest getting together with someone and having them explain it to you. It's how I learned it and its really the best way.

When you choose the type of company there is also going to be rules on what you can field. For example, If you choose an infantry platoon, it will say that you need to field a 1 HQ and 2-3 combat platoons (infantry platoons). You can then field as many weapons platoons as you want up to the alloted amount. For example, usually a HMG Platoon is a weapons platoon. It will tell you you can 0-2 of those. And you can field the other weapons platoons too. Now the support platoons are different. Typically, you can field 2 support platoons per combat platoon so 4-6 of those platoons depending if you have 2 or 3 combat platoons. Support Platoons are those taken from Divisional Support and also in the first page that details infantry company it will tell you that there are several other platoons that can be taken as support from other types of companies such as heavy or light tanks or scout type platoons. Every company is a bit different but that is typically how it works. Hope that helps some.

I do not agree on the terrain issue.
There are plenty of items/materials for city fighting at Sunshine. I myself wanted to have a Leningrad/Stalingrad scenario, just never got around too it. There plenty of buildings and even a couple of tank factories.
Most player like the big wide open country for fighting.

That would be a good question for the history buffs, the most battles happen in the cities or on open land (excluding sea of course).

JerryB

Well, when I mean dense terrain, it does not have to be a city-fight. In fact, I think thats the biggest problem.

Alot of people assume that when its "the country" that its "open" terrain. Europe has some flat parts, but for most part, even with its flat, its got forests, fields, and all sorts of other features that can block LOS or provide concealment if shot through. If anything I've seen of the country-sides of France when I rode through via train, it seems pretty hard to have a long fire firefight due to lots of different obstacles.

This is more along the lines of what I'm talking about. Check out any of my battle reports from some of the tournaments I've been at to see some really great tables that really highlight alot of the game. Heck, even look at the Tanksgiving event, and I thought we had a pretty fantastic board there as well.

Im in Miami all this week (I leave the 21st SAT) for spring break. I know some of the players have odd hours but I'm on break so hit me up. I don't have any army components or rule books, but if you don't mind showing a guy a game or just inviting me to watch that would be cool. I've been trading unused 40k elements for FOW, specifically German mid-late war stuff. I have Ostfront and the Main Rule Book, which frankly make 50% sense to me. But if I see it live then it would make sense. So Monday, Tuesday and Thursday are god days. Pick one guys and book it. I'm pumped like Big Ceaser. Not jacked up on steroids but just excited about a new hobby.

I'm free monday and tuesday and possibly thursday morning. Although, Thursday could be at Bill's house. I have German Paratroopers, Midwar British and a borrowed American tank company that could be mid or late war. So you won't need an army. So, let me know what day you want to play.

Eric

Tuesday would be cool. Let me know where and when. Thanks by the way!