Beginning fantasy with High Elves

Hey all, most of you may not know me. My name's matt, I've been playing warhammer 40k for a couple of years and have decided to give fantasy a shot.

I've decided to pick up high elves because, to be honest, the models look wicked cool. I'm really into swords and sorcery, and it looks like high elves do really well at both! I picked up the codex today (wednesday) and have been skimming through it and nagging chris mercilessly about certain rules that may differ between fantasy and 40k.

Though I don't know much, I think I understand enough of the game to start producing my first couple of lists, and here's where I stumble on my world of problems- how important is resilience? What is considered "Resilient" in this game? High elves have a SUPER DOODOO armor save as compared to 40k (I play space marines, 3+ is standard to me) since my elves seem to boast a 5+ O.-

Also, what do you guys do with your special characters to keep them from getting sniped? Do they get sniped often? Is it a concern I need not deal with?

I've decided to go with a magic heavy army list, as I feel it'll be crucial to countering certain competitive armies, and here's what I've got down so far-

Lord- 475
Teclis

Heroes-505
Mage (Lv. 2, Seerstaff, Jewel of Dusk)-160
Mage (Lv. 2, Silver Wand, Annulian Crystal)-185
BSB (Banner of Sorcery)- 160

Core-320
Archers (16 elves strong)-176
Spearmen (16 elves strong)-144

Special-



Rare- 200
Repeater Crossbow
Repeater Crossbow

Some numbercrunching I did concerning the magic phase.

On average, I'll produce the following-

Pool- 4 power dice (2 base, 2 from standard on average)
Teclis- 4 power dice on average
Mage 1- 3 power dice
Mage 2- 2 power dice

Total: 13 power dice.

Dispell pool- 10 (2 base+2 tec+2bonus from tec on average+2 mages+1 for stone)
Plus Teclis' uber ownage dispell scroll

The special, as I understand from the high elf point of view, is supposed to be the meat of my army- the bang for the buck... But I'm incredibly torn between three units. The Swordmasters of Hoeth are extremely offensive. They appear to be able to rip most things to shreds, especially since they get to go first. On the flip side, Phoenix Guard are extremely defensive (4+ ward, whaaaat?) and cause fear. They have one less attack, one less strength, but I mean I guess they still have some offensive power since they always strike first (yeah, that gets me excited). Finally, I have the dragon princes, who seem to be super mobile, super heavy hitting, and relatively defensive... but quite, QUITE expensive.

I've dumped a hell of a lot of points into my characters (almost 1000 points?!) and only have so much room left to work with for my specials... What exactly would the gaming community recommend? Do I need to drop some of my magic? I'm pushing alot of power dice, a lot of dispel dice, and enough variety in lore's that I should be able to handle several situations, but again I'm inexperienced. Any advice would be SUPER useful.

PS if I miscalculated something, please don't hesitate to slap my wrist!

All elves are fragile. High, Wood, or Dark - there is no real getting around that. They have low toughness and low saves.

With high elves this is balanced with high weapon skill (hit more) and ASF (Always Strikes First).

Armor Saves - In fantasy, higher strength starts to negate the armor save. Every point over 3 is -1 to the save; so hitting with Strength 6 negates the save by 3 points. Suddenly everything can be killed. Ward saves are NOT effected in this way.

Troops -
Dragon Princes - Heavy Cav option. This is a hammer unit. They hit fast and hard. They can break light units on their own, but may need support against fully ranked up elite infantry. DP have a 2+ save, so they are the best defensive option. They are Str5 on the charge (lances). They are IMMUNE to all fire attacks.

Swordmasters - 1 attack is the CC standard, so 2 base is very nice. They also have 2H weapons for Str5. Usually this makes you go last in combat, but not with ASF. Infantry hammer unit.

White Lions - Less WS and attacks than SM, but with Str6. They can also move through forests as open ground, which can give you an edge on certain boards.

Phoenix Guard - Once again you get a Str bonus with the Halbards. Less attacks than the SM, but more D. You get both a 6+ armor and a 4+ ward. They also cause fear so you have less issues with other fear causing stuff like Undead or Daemons. This is more of an Anvil unit, designed to take a charge, hold, and setup your flanking units.

Lion Chariots - Another good hammer unit. Impact hits plus a bunch of Str5 attacks. They also cause fear.

Some nice HE items
Banner of Ellyrion - unit treats terrain as open ground. Just like with White Lions, this can give you attack lanes that the other player can not use or may not see coming.

Banner of Arcane Protection - Magic Resistance 2. Helps keep spells off of one unit.

Lions Standard - Immune to Fear and Terror.

Jewel of the Dusk - you have that one.

One note on your mage builds - You can only take one of each type of magic item (weapon, arcane, etc.). You can't have 2 arcane items on one character. They exception to this is Dispel Scrolls and Power Stones which can be mixed with a 2nd Arcane item.

Would a great eagle (or 2) be more beneficial for a magic heavy HE list than 2 repeater bolt throwers? For war machine harrasement, lone character hunting, etc.... It seems like shooting for this kind of list is a bit weak and it might be more beneficial to have harrasment units. If he faces a true shooting army 2 repeaters aren't really going to do much and he's got enough offensive magic to drop BOMBS on sucka fools. Am I completely off base?

You are missing out on what makes the High Elves good, more Special choices, reconfigure your characters, take min core and bulk up in special choices.

Sword Masters are amazing, and you only need liek 12 of them, run them 6 wide and thats 12 strenth 5 attacks that always hit first.

He originally wanted to put in 3 units of sword masters. I thought it was a bit too much, 1 for sure too good to pass up, but not more. Again I might be off base.

The bolt throwers can take out big nasty things or shoot troops. I like them over Eagles.

Luis is correct - you need to max your specials. High Elves get 5 units (one more then others), so use that edge.

Look at Sea Guard, which mix the bows and spears. The cloaks gives a benefit as well, though I'm not sure what it is.

I think Swordmasters and White Lions can both work quite well. Units of 12 run 6x2. Some on the net run SMs in multiple units of 6. Saves points - so that is something to experiment with.

I'd definately use a unit of Dragon Princes. Mount your BSB hero and put him in this group. The World Banner is expensive, but it can also make them even harder to stop.

PG need to run in a big group of 20. Your looking to win combat and outnumber so you auto-break the other side. So factor that cost into consideration.

While Teclis is awesome and he seems quite fun - HE have the best dragon in the game. I'd start my list with a Lord on a Star Dragon. That is one nasty general to deal with.

As of right now I'm heavily leaning towards grabbing maybe two units of 15 swordsmen of hoeth and a unit of 10 or two units of 5 dragon princes. I haven't been able to glimpse at the other lores of magic (other meaning not high-magic) so I'm not sure about the damage capabilities of my mages, but I imagine with enough power dice and dispell dice I should be able to rock the magic phase... Not to mention Drain Magic looks SUPER awesome.

Now that I know about the arcane item business, I guess I have left a gaping hole in my point allotment, I was wondering if I can take the Banner of Sorcery on one of my mages? I know they're not standard bearers, but it says they can have any magic item... This would open up a hero slot or a different banner for my BSB to ride with the dragon princes.

As for the squishiness of the swordmasters, I'm hoping that by keeping them moving around terrain and trying to block line of sight will make them a hard target to shoot at... And if all else fails, I'm planning on taking teclis on the High Magic route do dish out some utility spells like Shield of Saphery/Vaul's Unmaking.

Phoenix guard look cool, but untill I can get a good grip on the damage output of my mages, I'm afraid defensive units will have to wait

Read the rulebook twice, wrote all the relevant lores of magic in my cool magic book I originally got for DND- yeah, I'm a nerd. Dig it.

Some of this stuff is effin incredibly supporty, mages don't seem to have much damage capability (minus spamming hand of khain etc for 2d6 ST 4 hits)... However, being able to heal ALL the wounds on a model to me makes me sit down and say "Ho hum." AND it works on units like dragons, WHAT IS THAT?!

Its very yummy, very very yummy. Teclis suddenly looks super worth his points, especially since he naturally comes with 4 spell dice, +D3- thats alot of power dice... Not including my two mages and 2-5 power dice pool thanks to the banner. A heavy magic HE army is definitely going to be my bread and butter, I just need to get some offensive units to couple it with... I think Dragon Princes coupled with Celestial Shield looks really nasty- or even swordmasters of hoeth with Celestial Shield to give them that extra awesome survivability in the enemy's shooting phase.

Magic, from what it looks like in my perspective, seems super supporty- less nukey. I'm not complaining, I think it'll really make up for the weaknesses of the elves.

Am I off base?

After intense thinking and number crunching, reviewing the rules, reading several tactica, here's what I've come up with.


Lord: 475
Teclis- 475

Heroes: 505
Mage- 185
-Lv 2. Seer Staff, Power Stone

Mage- 150
-Lv 2. Silver Wand,

Noble BSB- 170
-Greatsword, Dragon Armor, Barded Elven Steed, Banner of Ellyrion, Amulet of Light


Core: 288
Spearmen (16 elves strong)- 144
Spearmen (16 elves strong)- 144

Special: 778

Sword Masters of Hoeth (15 strong)- 269
Champ/War Banner

Sword Masters of Hoeth (15 strong)- 269
Champ/War Banner

Dragon Princes of Caledor (5 strong)-240
Champ/Banner of Sorcery

Rare: 200
Repeater Bolt Thrower-100
Repeater Bolt Thrower-100





Power Dice Pool: 2+D3 from banner=6 on average
Teclis Dice Pool: 4+D3 from special rule=6 on average
Mage PDice Pool: 2+power stone for 1 turn
Mage PDice Pool: 2 flat.

Dispell Dice Pool: 2+4+D3 from teclis=8 on average
Scroll of Hoeth (dispell with 4+ chance of forgetting)


Only thing that's throwing me through loops is whether or not my BSB can carry a banner and a greatweapon. My codex doesn't specify that I must take a hand weapon and nothing that I can see in the rulebook about the matter.

You guys are the experts, comments and critiques?

I think you can only take 1 war banner. Not sure about the GW on the BSB.

Only 1 of any magic item (except scrolls and power stones) - so only 1 War Banner

Each mage needs a scroll. Replace the powerstone, as you have plenty of dice.

BSB can take a Greatsword, but that is only +1 Str when mounted. Better with Lance and Shield for Str6 on the charge and 2+ armor save. Also, if you take a Magic Banner then you can't take other magic items.

I split the SMs further into 3 units of 10.

War Banner on the Princes. Sorc Banner on somethng that won't be in action and at risk as quickly (SMs)

As for magic attacks - Fire has the most damage spells. Metal has a couple of nasty attacks and some utility. One of those is usually your best option.