WH 40K Tournament Nov. 6

you can take more
he is saying if you show up with 3 monos or like you only take destroyers and heavy destroyers. for example. throw in a immortal or pairah and you will be ok

Pariahs are "pariahs". Here is the thing. If you take destroyers, you need to take another unit so they can WWB. If you take immortals, you need to take another unit as well to WWB. Max did this with his immortal blob last tourny. That is the one main keybto staying competitive with necrons. Without being able to make WWB rolls should a unit get hit, means game over.

Yeah, you don't take one unit "just for flavor".

And any Necron player that takes more than 2 or 3 troops is kind of an idiot.

Since my Dark Eldar are still being put together and I had to go to the store that day to pick up some of the new DE, I was actually thinking of playing. My only built (and painted!) army is Necrons. Fuck that.

My Necron army would have a comp score of 7. That's a solid score. I'm pretty sure you're going to be taking a much geyer armylist + special characters with DE.

Taking 6 squads of warriors and two lords (both with destroyer body if you wanted) with three monoliths would be a score of 10!!!

Also, taking more than two troops is an excellent idea! I don't know if you're familiar with 5th edition but only troops can score.

When yous posting missions?

So much pre-tourney bitching

Sooo....the tournament uses comp so we run the armies you would run?

As for the "geyer army list", fuck you bro. I'm going to run army lists I *like* with the models I *have*, not what you feel I should be running for whatever bullshit reason.

But hey, it's your tournament. You want to play pretend game designer, go right ahead. I really wanted to get in another tourney before year end, I'll just have to wait for December then.

ImAShakiraholic wrote:My Necron army would have a comp score of 7. That's a solid score. I'm pretty sure you're going to be taking a much geyer armylist + special characters with DE.

Taking 6 squads of warriors and two lords (both with destroyer body if you wanted) with three monoliths would be a score of 10!!!

Also, taking more than two troops is an excellent idea! I don't know if you're familiar with 5th edition but only troops can score.

Yep, fail on comp. Very worthless. For tourneys, people should be free to bring what they have. Not everyone can afford enough models to make the several lists. Some players have been building for their list for weeks and practicing with them to only have to redo them. Comp is a relic of last edition.

A lot of whining in here over nothing, ugh. It's not even a big deal.

Necrons don't need to have another unit within 6" to WBB, just another model of the same type and again the Troops don't count towards that as already stated. The only units I can see that pestering would be the Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers and even then if you know what you're doing you should be fine.

Thank you professor awesomeface for sharing your wisdom. I'm sooo glad that troops are fine. I guess I should build my army chock full of troops since immortals, destroyers, heavy destroyers, and wraiths shouldn't be doubled so fuck their WBB right? Oh wait, they don't need WBB is what you're saying, because when you run them you know what you're doing and never die! Well, sorry I'm not as awesome as you.

How about this, don't tell me how to run my army and I won't tell you how to run yours, deal? That's all I'm asking.

My problem is that the TO for this tournament wants to play amateur game designer and because he also thinks he's so goddamn awesome at 40k he feels the need to tell me how to play the game his way for reasons that make no sense.

I love how raising objections is whining. So I guess if you don't like something you shut your mouth and take it? Is that the man way to handle things?

As I said, I'm just going to have to wait until next month until a more reasonable TO picks up the mantle and runs a 40k tournament.

rba718 wrote:A lot of whining in here over nothing, ugh. It's not even a big deal.

Necrons don't need to have another unit within 6" to WBB, just another model of the same type and again the Troops don't count towards that as already stated. The only units I can see that pestering would be the Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers and even then if you know what you're doing you should be fine.

He is right, necrons as everyone knows are nerfed. It takes every trick to get them competitive. The TO won the last tournament with minimum troops and 20x immortals. My point is, a lot of new players have been building their lists a specific way. They take their advice from veteran players. So they want to come to a tourny and show up penalized. I don't care how small the penalty points, but the past few tourneys have been won by a difference of 1 to 2 points

Vycem wrote:Thank you professor awesomeface for sharing your wisdom. I'm sooo glad that troops are fine. I guess I should build my army chock full of troops since immortals, destroyers, heavy destroyers, and wraiths shouldn't be doubled so fuck their WBB right? Oh wait, they don't need WBB is what you're saying, because when you run them you know what you're doing and never die! Well, sorry I'm not as awesome as you.

How about this, don't tell me how to run my army and I won't tell you how to run yours, deal? That's all I'm asking.

My problem is that the TO for this tournament wants to play amateur game designer and because he also thinks he's so goddamn awesome at 40k he feels the need to tell me how to play the game his way for reasons that make no sense.

I love how raising objections is whining. So I guess if you don't like something you shut your mouth and take it? Is that the man way to handle things?

As I said, I'm just going to have to wait until next month until a more reasonable TO picks up the mantle and runs a 40k tournament.

rba718 wrote:A lot of whining in here over nothing, ugh. It's not even a big deal.

Necrons don't need to have another unit within 6" to WBB, just another model of the same type and again the Troops don't count towards that as already stated. The only units I can see that pestering would be the Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers and even then if you know what you're doing you should be fine.

So full of mad and butthurt in here bro lol. I like how you're implying I ever said anything about "Not needing WBB" but I guess that's convenient for your argument. Cool strawman bro. I said you don't need another unit for WBB, you just need another model of the same type within 6" but I guess you missed that part. And if you know what you're doing you don't need to waste points and overstock on units just to be "competitive" or at least safe because of an apparent lack of skill.

I stopped reading your response after a while because you're silly and get easily defensive over 40k which is funny.

Honestly, people do get defensive when it comes to their beloved army favorites. It maybe a little over the top, but we all know how much time we put into our armies. Over the past year and a half I have played nearly all armies. In that time I have learned the difference between cheese and skill. Necrons were my first army I learned 40k with. It was a HUGE learning curve, though I got pretty good with them. I never ran huge repeated units of immortals or destroyers. I did it with 2x lords, 30x necrons, 6x wraiths. 5x destroyers and usually 2x monoliths. It varied a little but that was it. This game is paper, rock, scissors. Some armies just will do better against certain opponents. So in a setting where you need an all comers list; why not make the best list you can? This is what I believe a tournament is about. To study and with experience, make the toughest army you can. Who doesn't want to win $100 bucks in store credit? Come on, get real. Comp is an obsticle to making the best list you can for a tourny. The new players won't understand it and will feel cheated. This is fact. It will not be welcoming to any new players. I personally would love for the nid players to not run 9x hive guard and multiple tervigons. But ya know what? I am not a pussy and welcome anything thrown at me with whatever army. I play because I enjoy the game and your all smelly company. I will never tell any opponent to not run a unit in his list because I am scared of losing. I am sorry and mean no offense, but comp is for chicken-shit whiners. Besides, last I checked, I was the only one who brought net lists to the store. This time I am bringing daemons and have a great comp score. Looks like my tourny list won't have any repeated units in any FOC except for troops. Though I would prefer no comp for this tourny because I am not gay:)

Listen to jspyd3rx, he's been absolutely correct so far, and not just because we share viewpoints, but because he makes actual arguments. I get defensive about people who tell me what to do or think. You want me to agree with you or see your point of view? Convince me that you're right, don't just go around posturing and posing. It's annoying when a counter argument boils down to "Well, I'm so awesome, sorry you can't be as awesome as me."

I don't care what you can technically do under the arbitrary restrictions, I don't care how you play or how this just happens to work just fine with your ideal of a Necron army. It's not just about my army. It's not about ANY army. It's about arbitrary restrictions with nothing to back it up.

Where's the reasoning behind this comp ruling? What is it trying to accomplish? What army would autowin the tournament if there was no comp? What is he protecting me from?

Read the beginning of the thread. I asked a simple question. But instead of an answer, I get "it's not so bad, look, you can do this with Necrons! I think that's awesome, why don't you?" coupled with "it doesn't matter, just shut up and do what you're told."

That's never worked for me, not going to start working now. He's getting paid to run an event by the store in order to drum up business and support the gaming community. It baffles me that we're expected to pay to play, block out the time to do it, and then be told that we can't use stuff that we bought, assembled, and painted just because.

We all here know how expensive and time consuming this hobby is. I may not be a master painter, but damn if it didn't take me a long, long time to get all those minis painted. And now my stuff is not good enough because some guy randomly decided? Gotta ask why.

Oh, and rba718, don't misunderstand, I'm not mad at you or anything. As I said, I don't like being told what to do "just because" by people with no authority, and I don't shy away from confrontation. If I don't agree with you I will always tell you or anyone else. I tend to think it's better than me disagreeing with people then talking shit behind their back.

As I said earlier, this is how this guy wants to run the tournament, more power to him. I'll just have to wait until the next one.

That being said, I'm all for spawning a new thread to discuss our opinions on comp as a community. Unless me and jspyd3rx are the only ones who care because we're all just too cool to care about stuff.

I was never trying to "tell you how to play" and if that's what you thought I said it isn't what I meant at all. But whatever, I don't like this kind of thing in the community. And for the record, I've been playing Necrons forever, they were my first army and I still play them today.

I can see how the system might pose some difficulties but I guess it just needs a tweak or two. The intent is fine to avoid "cheese" and have a fair game but I'll leave it at that.

GG.

That's the basic idea behind comp. At least how the op is describing it. Read his posts. He is specifically telling players how they should build their lists. I don't get that at all. Unless the op is also competeing in the tournament he is running. Need to check that:(

Okay guys. I Suppose you'll never get farther than a tournament at joels with that kind of thinking.

EVERY GT AND INDY GT USES COMP SCORES

You're thinking on 'Ard Boys level. If all you want to do is smash into each other with stupid army lists that you'll NEVER see in a REAL GT then okay.

Comp scores will be used this tournament. If you accuse me of bias please come to me with evidence. I have never and will never judge anyone inappropriately. I have been running tournaments for years and am well respected in the 40K circuit. I run my events as preparation for players that want to advance.

New players will be grateful that comp is in place, who wants to get ravaged by 9 obies every game.

You will never understand how soft scores work or how to play people with cheese and defeat them with balanced lists.
It's disheartening to me that I can't run a GT style tournament without some scrubs whining.
Look up GT scoring and do some research before whining like a child. This is a REAL tournament I could careless if you don't like my scoring, others do and they enjoy a level playing field.

Anyways. Let's talk about this in person so I can explain scoring further. I'll be at Joel's on Wednesday.

When will the missions be posted? What do you mean by advancing? Is this a real gt or will we be able to run one here at some point? Are compmscores really used at all GT's?

Indy GTs are doing away with comp scores and the world didn't end. True story. It's a trend that started this year and it's picking up steam. Check it out:

The NOVA Open:
http://novaopen.com/

The Battle for Salvation:
http://www.battleforsalvation.com/

Bolter Beach II (coming soon and right here in Florida!):
http://www.bolterbeach.com/


So that "all GTs use comp" is a myth. Comp is an antiquated system instituted to correct a perceived imbalance, and while popular for a while, the fact that GW has been on the ball with the newer books is eroding it's popularity.

So, to address your post:

"If you accuse me of bias please come to me with evidence."

I for one never accused you of bias. What I *am* accusing you is of instituting some sort of blanket rules without thinking out how it actually affects the game, how it actually affects each army and their balance both external and internal, and basically just playing amateur game designer because, as you just pointed out, you think you're kind of a big deal.

Also, this:

"It's disheartening to me that I can't run a GT style tournament without some scrubs whining.
Look up GT scoring and do some research before whining like a child. "

So far only jspyd3rx and I brought up points for question and debate. Are you calling either one of us a scrub? I've been playing this game for several years now, and jsyd3rx is a pretty hard core player who has made this game his primary hobby.

My question still stands, what are you trying to balance with this comp? What are you trying to stop?

All you've explained so far behind this is:

"I run my events as preparation for players that want to advance. " - So, you're some sort of tournament master who wants to teach us the way? How kind of you, I guess? Still doesn't seem to show any thought behind your comp.

"New players will be grateful that comp is in place, who wants to get ravaged by 9 obies every game." - So are you saying that if you didn't have this comp in place, the tournament would automatically be won by a chaos player fielding 9 obliterators? Really? Because at none of the GT's I mention above that happened. At all our previous tournaments without comp that didn't happen.

"This is a REAL tournament I could careless if you don't like my scoring, others do and they enjoy a level playing field." - Thank you for thumping your chest, oh mighty alpha male. But you're still not explaining in any logical or coherent way why this makes it "a level playing field."

Please. Explain. I'm listening. That's all I'm asking for, after all. Because right now, all I'm getting is "Because I say so and I'm awesome".

So yeah, no amount of name calling or telling me how you're such a respected 40k tournament person that I never heard of will stop me from asking, yet again, about the logic behind this comp.

Maybe I *will* waste my time Wednesday night and drop by the store to hear your presentation as to why it's up to you to institute fake 40k rules to protect us from each other.

No, really, I'm fascinated. We've been playing against the same pool of people for a while, but I guess I never knew that someone had unlocked The Secret Army Combo that will autowin the game.

Wow, so after reading all that in all of this years GT tourneys, no GT uses comp anymore. I will be playing either way, I just feel comp is outdated. The missions are very kool though. I would love to give them a try. So after John's tourny in December; I will set up January's tourny with one of this year's GT rules and missions. I like the idea sportsmanship as well. The forms to be filled out after each mission make running the tourny for the TO a lot easier. Max, which of these will you be running? Would love to get practice games in by Wednesday. Also after running the tournaments for the past few months; debate will always pop up when deviating from what anyone is use to. Please no name calling from either side unless there is gay sexual innuendo. (Forum Rules I think)

2cents incoming: comp scoring is being done away with. Slowly but surely. In the Gts and RTTs that I've played in I haven't appreciated how comp affected my score and seeding. For example my tau (true story) : I start The Necro 2009 with 10 points less than some scrub because i have 4 railguns in my army. My army comp is 8 of 10 and get docked for 5 rounds. So right off the bat I'm behind the curve. I admit it didn't Piss me off until much later when I was a stronger player and realized the margin of victory in most tourneys is 1.5 points. Should I have to change my already balanced army because of comp? No. But starting a race with weights on your leg doesn't "even the playing field."
I understand , Max, its the way you learned to play, but, it truly doesn't make the game better. It only makes weaker armies and weaker players. Nothing in the game is over the top cheese. Nothing. 9 oblits do not scare balanced armies and experienced players. I learned how to deal with them thanks to Rufus. I used to get pwnd by them. I learned to deal and am better for it. By instituting comp in large tournaments, it makes for a large amount of weak players. This is a small tournament so no harm , right? Well if your preparing the new players for GTs and GTs are doing away with comp, aren't we handicapping them right off the bat?
Not much can really be done with rock paper scissors match ups. My Tau have problems with Necrons and seer councils wreck them from the word go. It's not my opponents fault. It's GWs. Different thread...
With all this text I still commend Max for taking time from his schedule to run a tournament. A lot of players don't want the responsibility and those that do have the right to run it how they see fit. If the way its run is not to someone's liking , don't play in it. It's simple really.

I might have to throw more than 2cents...

That was more like a nickel. Actually, I learned to play against lash and obi lists playing max. The first time is almost always devastating. Then you adjust your playin style and it isn't so scary. Right now, we have a lot of new players and maybe we should start running GT style tournaments to let them experience what one is like. I am really curious about those 2 on 2 team missions. Bolted Beach seems to be the next one and doesnt use comp. Wonder if I can convince the wife?

Bolted beach screwed the pooch last year and ran a "traditional" comp system that didn't go over well. With the overwhelming success of the NOVA open, a lot of tourneys are switching gears. BB seems like its gonna be an interesting event next year. Word to the wise Jose, if you're serious about going pick an army, write a solid list , and start painting what you are 100 percent sure will be in said list. Tweeks are easier to paint when its only a few changes.

Yea, from reading this past year's GT rules. 100% painted army is what scares me the most. Had no idea it was such a big thing and mandatory too. My new baby is due in Febuary, so after January I won't be around much till about August. I will be back playing once a month starting in April. Preferably for a tourny. Since we have more new players now; maybe running GT missions is a good idea. It would help anyone wanting to go to one later on.

Yeah, I'm all for trying the missions.