another question of 5th edition

Hi all,
I was just reading the 5th edition wh40k book when I found
out that a rending weapon now auto wounds on a 6 in the To Wound roll and not the To Hit
roll as stated in the previous edition of the rule book. Is this correct?

thanks in advance

Yes it is.

thanks

It doesn't auto wound anymore, though. It's an AP2 attack.....Come to think of it, I don't see the distinction now that I am actually mentioning it. I am sure our 40k savants (Stephan,Max) could explain the distinction better.

In the previous edition when you rolled to hit any 6's rolled auto wounded and ignored armor. Now you roll to hit and then when you roll to wound any 6's wound no matter what and count as AP2.

Ap 2 is also weaker against vehicles. Before is was just add a dice to armor penetration now its a d3.

Its better. rending was overpowered.

It truly was. It allowed a cheap tyranid monster, or tiny one, to rip into a land raider at will? WTF? However, I must say this the game has truly become a shooting gallery. Assault has died down in general.

rokassan wrote:Its better. rending was overpowered.

Yeah, its better for eldar w/ Doom.

Valhalla114 wrote:However, I must say this the game has truly become a shooting gallery. Assault has died down in general.

Indeed... one reason I'm more into fantasy atm. Whenever I play eldar it seems like I -have- to rely on shooting.

Assault is where you win games decisively. Anyone who thinks assault is dead needs to take a closer look at how combat resolution works, now. A good, strong assault is a much easier means to a Sweeping Advance than it used to be, and a Sweep is how you remove folks like Eldrad, Necron Lords, etc., easily. Nail the squad hard, make them fail a leadership, and catch 'em.. Assault is a much more "final" resolution to an exchange than trading bolter rounds and shuriken shots. As far as I'm concerned, guns are there for softening a target up, or cooking a vehicle so I can rip into the juicy stuff inside.

Yeah except that you cannot consolidate into a new assault at which point your assault team gets shot to hell.

Also, you can start shooting now from the get go- you can almost always guarantee you can see your target.

Valhalla114 wrote:It truly was. It allowed a cheap tyranid monster, or tiny one, to rip into a land raider at will? WTF? However, I must say this the game has truly become a shooting gallery. Assault has died down in general.

Close combat is still decisive, in the previous edition you could wipe out an entire force by just consolidating into each squad as you wiped them out. It was unbalanced in favor of assault armies. Now the pendulum has swung in the other direction. Now when you assault and win you left with you dick in the wind to shooting. I did well with assaulting in the last tournament although both of my opponents were Black Templar which are assault oriented.

i miss the old rendin rule

You simply have to balance and gauge how hard you nail a foe in CC. If you whittle them down too much with firepower, you tend to steamroll them in CC. Ideally, you have to learn just how much of a hit you need to deliver to finish them off in the opponent's assault phase.

It's called having balanced lists. Sad mentality of playing 40k games always involve making lists to the extreme of either shooty or close combat.

Close combat still is far more devastating than shooting attacks in most cases, it just isn't godly like it was before. It was too far in close combats favor before with the superior cc army winning as soon as they got into range. Now at least armies have a counter attack capability instead of being taken out by pacman like close combat rules.

Kyle wrote:It's called having balanced lists. Sad mentality of playing 40k games always involve making lists to the extreme of either shooty or close combat.

Close combat still is far more devastating than shooting attacks in most cases, it just isn't godly like it was before. It was too far in close combats favor before with the superior cc army winning as soon as they got into range. Now at least armies have a counter attack capability instead of being taken out by pacman like close combat rules.

The new Orc codex was to blame for the shift .
My fully mechanized Orc army of "I charge you on turn 2 and kill 80% of your army on that turn with Ghasgkhull leading" was a bit to much cheeeeeeeeese, even for GW !!

Pretty much all close combat top tier cheese lists were to blame. Close combat grinder armies basically were always the top armies at the tourny level, not just orks. 5th Edition didn't really stop orks from being so easy to abuse.

Eldar harlequin anyone? three 6-man squads tore open orcs/ig/marines/anyone

Another thing, gauging how hard you hit in close combat and whatnot only works with marines and units that actually have some durability(in toughness or numbers). For instance, the same harlequins that raped face in 4th edition wouldn't annihilate the squad- they'd kill just enough to not get attacked back. Now, if they annihilate the squad, they got shot to death (one squad of w/e shooting at them will do the trick), and if they don't they get killed by the two or more remaining guys in the squad.

As far as assault armies go in 5th edition, the only armies I've seen succeed in assault would be ork nobs. Of what I've personally played I've had good effect simply shooting them (including nobs) and using assault to clean up the squad or tank left. Really, you need a mix. I believe a mix with a predominate amount of shooting.

the problem now with this new rules its that eldar players, and imperial guards have a huge advantage in the shooting game. before it was more restricted and you had to use both shooting and assault in order to win, or if you had no shooting you relied in assault. now any eldar player or imperial guard player can just stand back and shoot until the opposing army is all but whiped out. that really sucks for assault type armies such as orks and marines.

?

Sorry, I played Guard before the new edition, and I could pretty much win by shooting. I mean, look at the Tau, thats all they do after all.

Sure I had assault stuff, but in comparison to an assault armies stuff mine was simply a roadblock to allow for more shooting.

No, the Guard were always about shooting before, now they just have more perks to it. IMO anyways.

Death_Company_Orks wrote:the problem now with this new rules its that eldar players, and imperial guards have a huge advantage in the shooting game. before it was more restricted and you had to use both shooting and assault in order to win, or if you had no shooting you relied in assault. now any eldar player or imperial guard player can just stand back and shoot until the opposing army is all but whiped out. that really sucks for assault type armies such as orks and marines.

My Tau were all shooty and they could not hold off assult armies - so I have to disagree with this here. I've been easliy rolled by Orks.
With scouts and fast assult you can cross the board before the other player gets a shot off.

well to tell u the truth in my opinion tau are far too new of an army to count. if you have played against a shooting eldar army with an assault army, i bet you would get your ass handed to you. even if you can get close enought, they can always get into range, shot the crap out of you and fall back out of range again. while the IG army will send their troops into close combat, wait for you to slauther them and then shot the crap out of you while you sit there with a big shoot me sign on your head. either way there is nothing you can do except keep trying and keep thinking of new strategies on how to beat them. :/

either way there is nothing you can do except keep trying and keep thinking of new strategies on how to beat them. :/

Isn't this the point of the game? I mean if my same list and tactics worked against everybody all the time then I feel like the game would have died out long ago.

Just sayin'

And thats why im liking Nids, those big bugs are tough as hell, you shoot them and they keep on coming, you charge them and they eat you alive. I had a Carnifex make 32 armor saves in a row once !