2010 'Ard Boyz 40K

He is being taken from off the board, and MOVED 24", and placed using Deep strike rules. Again this is a very specific power and if they had meant to target all deep strikers, they would have simply said so.

The same would go for the one Orc Wyrd boy power that can move a unit across the table randomly.

The ard boy rule says nothing about deep striking at all. The confusion is being created because the power in the EXAMPLE, and not the rules, but that is obviously debatable.

The scenerio states specifically that a librarian does count.

Kyle wrote:He is being taken from off the board, and MOVED 24", and placed using Deep strike rules. Again this is a very specific power and if they had meant to target all deep strikers, they would have simply said so.

ShadowMaster wrote:
If specifies the objective is to take out fast moving targets. Anything that moves over 6". It does NOT say that deep-striking counts as moving more than 6". Vehicles, Bikes, Cav Units, Flyers, Jump Packs, etc. would be 3 kps.

They didn't state ANY type that it effects. They didn't list Jump infantry, vehicles, etc. All they stated was that it effected units that move more than 6" in any game phase.

Also note, Units that deep-strike move 2d6" in a random direction after placed on the table. Vehicles count as moving cruising speed (over 6").


Also, what in the game moves faster than a drop pod falling from orbit? lol

If a unit moves more than 6" is the simplest way to handle it instead of trying to bring fluff into the matter, that is when game rules get burdened by nonsense.

They don't move anywhere. Deep striking units hit the map after scatter, they aren't moving yet. Placing a unit on the map is your aim, scattering is your landing zone. You don't land then scatter across the floor. You are over complicating it and being too literal. I think we cant help ourselves sometimes. Imagining Caesar ripping his hair out at all this on his computer is what I think may be motivating me.

Indeed. Chris you aren't going to be at 'ard boyz?

Kyle wrote:If a unit moves more than 6" is the simplest way to handle it instead of trying to bring fluff into the matter, that is when game rules get burdened by nonsense.

I wasn't the first to bring it up. It was merely a response. I could have responded "with instead of trying to bring fluff into the matter, that is when game rules get burdened by nonsense." but I entertained it- I apologize.

Anyone that has had a rules discussion with me knows for a fact that I don't give a shit about fluff.

A librarian that deep strikes with Gate of Infinity isn't actually making a movement. Does that 24" movement require difficult terrain tests along the way? No. Can the 24" movement pass through an enemy model? Is it in any way a 24" movement? No. It is a deep strike.

If a Librarian using Gate of Infinity to Deep-strike counts as 3KP, then any unit that deep-strikes counts as 3KP.

There is a reason a Librarian deep striking counts as 3KP and a Necron unit being pulled through a monolith does not.

KingdomCome wrote: Chris you aren't going to be at 'ard boyz?

Nah. I'm heading out early Sunday morning. I'll stop by to hang out and whatnot- but I don't think I could stay long enough to participate.

Then why in the third scenario does it bring this up?

"A Librarian with Gate of Infinity is 3 kill points, though a
Space Marine Tactical Squad joining him is 1 KP"

The Eldar Guy wrote:

KingdomCome wrote: Chris you aren't going to be at 'ard boyz?

Nah. I'm heading out early Sunday morning. I'll stop by to hang out and whatnot- but I don't think I could stay long enough to participate.

Well that rightly sucks..... Some poor schmucks got lucky.

I'll try to get in contact with GW ASAP. I hope we aren't the only gaming community going through this sillyness about "potential 3 kp." If we are.... I'd like to blame Jose P. and ask him to kindly leave the pub.....

WHAAA?!?! Hey I like what Shadow said. Anyway Bromah told me to give ya this to kool down.
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KingdomCome wrote:
Well that rightly sucks..... Some poor schmucks got lucky.

indeed- well. I'm just going to have to council Ariel before the tourney.

Think I may enjoy it more being there and not playing. Definitely more relaxing, lol.

jspyd3rx wrote:Then why in the third scenario does it bring this up?

"A Librarian with Gate of Infinity is 3 kill points, though a
Space Marine Tactical Squad joining him is 1 KP"

Same reason a squad in a transport counts as 1kp while the transport counts as 3.

I meant the librarian. I thought you were against the librarian counting as 3kps? Well, whatever. I think it's time for bed. Some pansy looking cop is trying to force me out of the pub; probably thinks I had too much.

Deepstrikes are not something you can do every movement phase - it is something you do once to enter the unit into the game. Deep strike is a deployment - not a move.

I'm going off quotes and Army Builder vs. the Codex - but it seems the Librarian w/ Gateway can teleport 24" during his movement phase. As he can do this each turn, this is a movement ability.

The only thing linking them is the scatter roll.

That just isn't true though. Libriarian gate ability allows him to deepstrike. It is not a normal movement.

Does that 24" "movement" require difficult terrain tests along the way? Can the 24" movement pass through an enemy model? Is it in any way a 24" movement? No. It is a deep strike. He doesn't fly across the table. The only thing it says is to remove him from the board and Deep strike him.

Deepstrike and gate Deep-strike are -exactly- the same. The only difference is the Librarian can do it already on the table and with restrictions.


I don't' need to justify Deepstriking in general as moving over 6". GW already did that when they stated a Deep-striking Librarian using the Gate ability counts as 3KP.

I've pretty much stated everything. I can already see in this post that its becoming circular.

However, I would play it safe and for this tournament have deep striking units count for regular KPs. It would be incredibly gay to fuck someone up and later find out it was wrong.

I don't think GW clarified Deep Striking as over 6" of movement - they clairified that if the Librarian has gateway he can move over 6" and thus is worth more points.

The 24" movement is free of terrain tests and enemy models because he is using a special ability to teleport. He only needs to roll scatter if he brings other along. As he can do this EACH turn, it is clearly a movement ability.

"The Librarian, and any unit he is with, are removed from the table and immediately placed back together anywhere within 24" using the deep strike rules"

Nowhere does it tell you to move the librarian 24".


It does scatter, as well. Its only if he has people along that does a double (on the scatter roll) kill a dude. Read the description, I posted it several posts up.

If the Librarian travels alone, there is no risk, but if he takes a unit with him, there is a chance something will go wrong. If the deep strike attempt scatters and a double is rolled, one member of the unit, chosen by the controlling player, is claimed by the Warp and removed as a casualty (the survivors scatter normally).


Entertaining the idea that is movement: "because he is using a special ability" is not an adequate reason to dismiss movement restrictions. If it said to move 24 inches, he still wouldn't be able to move over impassible terrain, enemy models, terrain, etc. If the rules said to move over them (like a skimmer) that would be different.

His rules are radically different than normal movement rules. The rules say to remove him from play and enter via deep strike. The only difference between his deepstrike and a terminators teleporting deep strike is that he can do it during the game and with additional restrictions. He follows ALL the deep strike rules.

I forgot what we are arguing about. So Chris is saying the Librarian doesn't count or does as 3kps? Doesn't the scenario pdf from GW specifically say as an example that the librarian does count as 3kps because he can port all over the place?

I'm saying the Librarian deep strikes and does count as 3KP and thus all deep strikers count as 3KP.

I also say that 'ard boyz should be ran similar to the masses in that it should be kept to its similest. Deep strikers should not count as 3KP for the sake of the tournament.

I just read the Mawloc rules and that adds a whole new cluster-f'bomb to the mix as he can deep strike in multiple times.

It does seem that he is intended to be used as a deep strike aoe and you can intentionaly try and drop in (or technically up) on enemy troops, causing them damage and to scatter in panic (which may lead to death if there is no where to run).

Pretty cool.

I think the best way to approach this is to say, does the model have the ability to actually move more than 6 inches in a direction in the movement phase? If no, it doesn't count as 3kp. Whether something Deep Strikes or not has nothing to do with how far it can move normally.

If I was a Commissar at GW I would execute whoever wrote the 3rd mission. I would also make sure they use templating in future missions, as opposed to the 0 templating in these missions.

Mission is fine. It just seems not a lot of thought we t into it. Shocking I know.

Yeah if you let everyone know ahead of time it's not that bad, but #3 can definitely hose people with small collections.