Chaos + Demons equal more intense and Fluff friendly battles

Do we allow Chaos players to use summoned demons from the new codex. Only Greater or lesser. No Special characters. This would be a general house rule since GW is full of shit. This would mean players like myself didnt waste money on all of these models we own.

I voted yes...I play Chaos and its only fair. If you say no explain yourself.

I say yes, even though I play Chaos and own NO demons, nor do I plan to.

I think this it's only natural to include demons in chaos armies during friendly game play. This is especially true since none of us really know how balanced or unbalanced this may prove to be, using the new demon rules.

I'd say that during Tournament play, it should be up to the tournament organizer/judge to decide whether this should be allowed.

So, what Poon said no? Show yourself, stand up and state your reason.

I don't play CHAOS. Enuff said

But seriously. I don't know about the new codex, but the old one I think Chaos was greatly under priced for their power. For example: Demon Prince, cheap as hell and could destroy a 1000 point army by itself.

Honestly I don't know how nerfed Chaos got, but I've always been a stickler to the rules and try to minimize house rules.

Rick.....This isn't the 3rd edition codex man......Demon princes aren't that powerful....but, they never were in my experience....sure, you could tool em up to be very tough...but almost every game I played that hose beast demon prince was killed by turn 3 or 4. Why doesn't it make sense that the chaos armies use the newest stats for the demons they ALWAYS had.....they can only summon 13 point generic demons as opposed to thier chosen gods demons with the special abilities they always had.. It's not like we would use the point cost for a generic demon and use the new statline.....we'd pay whatever they are worth in the demon codex....I think it's a no brainer really. I think if you DID play Chaos Rick...you'd see our point of view.

so the new demon codex says that CSMs can't use demons? pls explain.

GW say :

Why make 2 armies that are interchangeable, when you can create 2 armies that people have to buy and play with separately All the stupid kids will shell out twice the amount of their parents money !!!

I've had bad experiences with people using Deamons in conjunction with Chaos, and my verdict is still out on this.

I haven't voted yet, but I'd be ok with it if there were restrictions (such as if you were to follow the same rules like when including Daemon Hunters in your army with 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops and 1 fast attack). That would make sense to me and I'd be game for that.

Personally thats I think GW should have done it in the first place. It makes sense that some daemons will be around, but if the force is supposed to be Chaos Space Marines then let it be that.

Oh, and if your going to do it for fluff reasons be realistic about it. It wouldn't make any sense (IMO) that a Greater Daemon would be floating around a game anywhere under 1k points.

from a fluff perspective chaos space marines are all about demons, at least most of the original legions. It's flat out stupid to keep them separate if you are trying to make your rules coincide with your fiction.

Gentlemen...it's for PICK-UP games, which are about having fun...that means for the poor schmuck who's over-paying (points wise) for his Choas models (at least until the new army list comes out...12 points for a warrior is ridiculously cheap for what you get -- but let's not get side-tracked on that just now), he gets the fun of a list that matches the fluff he's going after. Even if you want to "power-game" your list by combining the best of both Army Books...what does it matter? It's a game played with little figures and dice. I'm for having fun, personally.

If the game is a PICK-UP game...have fun...have some fluffy lists, bring your combined army books...make that nasty list, or fluffy list, or both...bring a beer while your at it, cause it's for fun...

I'd even be okay with combining books in campaign games.

The only kicker is officially sanctioned RTTs/GTs/GW events (like 'Ard Boyz)...you will not be able to combine books for those games (so, if you get used to the better daemons in regular games, you might be putting yourself at a disadvantage for tournaments). Again, it's personal opinion, but people should remember that we're not breaking the rules of Warhammer (at least not the basics of the game)...just allowing a combination that until recently and for reasons other then game play, was 100% legal...more importantly, it makes the list more interesting for those who want to specialize with one god or another.

Just my long-winded 2 cents!

Well my problem is with the Chaos summonin of demons. I think that if you do use demons in a chaos army, then you need to use them exactly how they are used in the demon book. That means no summoning demons by Chaos, if these demons start from the deployment zone in the Demon's codex, etc.

I think for pick up games they are fine, but for Trounaments and Wednesday nights (playing for points) they should be banned, unless some ground rules are made for their use.

Well.. You do have a point Rick.. I don't know the specific rules regarding summoning in the new demon codex. If a person playing chaos wants to use Demons, I think he should have to field them the way they are described in the Demon Codex. At least in points league play. So if the demon codex says a pack of demonettes come in from the table edge.. then so be it, that's the price the chaos player has to pay for wanting to use the new codex. We might not have to stick to some of the idiotic rules that GW has made regarding combining these armies, but we should stick to the newest rulebook regarding the demons themselves if we are going to field them.

How much is a new demonette compared to an old one and does the increased or decreased price justify the differences in abilities if there are any, including the ability to be summoned. ? These are things that need to be taken into account when making a house rule.

In pickup games, it shouldn't matter at all

I know all lesser demons in the chaos codex are 13 pts. each

lordfairfax2001 wrote:bring a beer while your at it, cause it's for fun...
"

Only if your going to the square otherwise Joel or Debbie would have a fit!!

--Cesar "Who loves drinking his brew while playing 40k

DarkAngel_Cesar wrote:Only if your going to the square otherwise Joel or Debbie would have a fit!!

--Cesar "Who loves drinking his brew while playing 40k

Nah...just need to bring them both a spiked Coke or something (Everclear anyone???)

Sam is that an intent to poison them and kill them thats probably what it would do...and it couldnt coke cause they dont even drink soda...dunno how everclear and water would taste....


---Cesar

the new daemon codex is pretty rugged, Keeper of Secrets has Initative 10.... I dont think ANYONE not even someone in a puck up game would like him busting out of a chaos space marine....

I vote that if we create a house rule allowing the use of Demons in a chaos army, then Undivided Legions from the previous codex should be allowed too. Like Word Bearers, Alpha Legion, NightBringers,.... and oh yeah.. Iron Warriors.

we should allow the resident rookie, moi, future dark apostle (current initiate) of the word bearer army to field TONS of demons. thanks!!

Ovich wrote:I vote that if we create a house rule allowing the use of Demons in a chaos army, then Undivided Legions from the previous codex should be allowed too. Like Word Bearers, Alpha Legion, NightBringers,.... and oh yeah.. Iron Warriors.

Much as I'd love to face your four pie plates of death per turn Iron Warriors Army...I was assuming we were talking about allowing the current books to be combined, much as they were in the old book (it was broken into different parts for 40K, while it's always been 3 for WHFB). If we stick with combining new books (codicies for 40K and army books for WHFB), I'm good with the idea...if we're bringin' back all the cheesiness of the old book, plus the advancements of the new book (ostensibly to make up for the loss of fluff), I'm not sure that'll be so much fun!

There's always people who have to step on your dick.The demons are priced according to their value in battle.. Demons deep strike when their fielded as a separate army. Half Deepstrike automatically and the other half deepstrike as per the normal rules. If combined with CSM they come in as per the summoning rule. I have the codex. Nurgle demons are all slow and purposeful, Bloodletters no longer have power armor saves, demonettes are strength 3 instead of 4. Give me a goddamn break people. They take up troop or HQ spots like before and have their weakness's. I guess when you play Tau or Eldar you cant complain. It boils down to fluff, fun and power to the gamers...fuck GW.

dude.... the new Daemons are too rugged.... i'm AGAINST the use of these Daemons in a normal chaos army... where they can assault the same turn they summoned... thats GAY!... rending daemonetts with 3 attacks each in my face without any type of rebuttal is just stupid....

Demonettes were that way before except they were str 4. Also they could be summoned and assault in the same turn. What cave did you just crawl from under. CSM have not gotten better...they are generic. How is that an improvement? Oh yeah in 5th edition rending will auto wound ,but you still get your armor save...so how is that rugged...as you say.

.... Bill, no need to be derogatory when arguing. All I'm saying is that there are many FUCKED UP combinations you can do with Daemons and even MORE if you allow them to be played in a CSM army where they are going to assault the turn they are summoned...

Old: daemonette 2 attacks, str 4 rending.
Bloodletter str 5 powerw, 3+, in 4.
New: Daemonette 3 attacks, str 3 rending.
Bloodletter str 5 powerw, in 5.
Horrors all have 3 18" str 4 ap 4 shots... and a 4+ inv
Bloodthirster can be initative 6 on the charge, with 5 str 8 attacks...

so, what now your going to allow people to field the soul grinder and a squad of blood crushers too... sounds really fun.