*th edition opinions.

According to GW the box set comes out on September. I ordered the book cause i wanna start getting familiar with the rules ASAP. Once i get it whoever wants to look through it can make an appointment with my secretary, we can discuss "Viewing" fees as well as "Copying" fees at the time of the appointment.

Dont hate me, a Cuban gotta make a living u know.

I skipped 7th edition rulebook since the rule changes were so minor, it was fairly easy to memorize. Seemed like lot of people didn't buy the last edition since changes were so minor.

This book looks nice but yea it seems too big for use while play. Waiting on box set price, with online discount and then probably ebaying off the figs, should work out well.

The Eldar Guy wrote:What's the point in having high initiative if the enemy can still strike back with full attacks?

Also, its not that DE wont' be decent... its more that I'd have to buy 100+ warriors, some other stuff, and drop things that are no longer viable.

It's comical that the Dark Elf player, who is probably least effected by all of this and is still sitting at the top of the power curve, doesn't like the changes.

Chris - your entire army works just as well as before. Some of it even got better.
Hydra with an extra d6 HITS every round. Hydra wounds taken on a handler.
Hotek still works
Super ward save pendant still works
Shoot in 2 ranks
Shades are stubborn in a forest
Scouts can deploy within LoS
Dark Riders get a vanguard move
Your lone level 1 mage now can cast like a motherf

Enlighten me as to which part of your army you feel "doesn't work" with the new rules?

7 wide BG v. Chaos Warriors

BG
22Attacks
16 hits
8 wounds
5.33 die

Chaos Warriors
22attacks
11hits
9.16 die

I charge... I lose half my unit.

Enemy shooting always hurt. Now you can't hide.

Cannons can see through forests. Fire removes regen for the turn. Hydra can no longer break ranks. Shooting is -always- allocated against the hydra. Strikes at I2. Breath weapon only works once. Can't use the handlers in combat. No two hydras (Have to come up with 175pts).

RoHotek is even more stupid now... so no complaints.

Characters are weakened. Assassins(I used to take 3, so now I have to come up with 450pts...) or Hags will simply die in the first turn of combat due to step-up.

Shoot in two ranks... there were hills before- and I only have 20 crossbowmen.

Shades got severely gimped. GW are now ASL. They 'rank.' Stubborn doesn't mean anything if you get charged and die because you're T3 with no armor- and you're too expensive to have numbers. They can be shot at. Ranked infantry can now freely traverse through forests so they'll definitely get charged.

Dark Riders can't hide behind terrain. They can't march block. Can't redirect charges. Random charge range ends up costing them a couple inches on the average.

Our mages are good. Two level twos or even a single level 1 is pretty damn good. I always liked combat though.

Spearmen and crossbowmen got better. Spearmen with 20attacks(5wide) at 6pts each seem the way to go. For 20 black guard you get 50+ spearmen (I dont' have any....).

Executioners got the nail in their coffin with ASL.

Calvary in general got worse so no to CoKnights.

Played my 1st test game today vs. Neil.
Lizzies vs. WoC

Lord on Carni, Priest on EoTG Steggy, ScarVet BSB, Priest on foot
40 Saurus w/ Spears Horde
2x 20 Skinks + 2 Krox
5 CoR
3 Sallies

Lord of Tz
30 WoC w/ MoK
5 Marauder Horsemen
5 Knights
Chariot of Khorne
6 Ogres
6 Trolls
Hellcanon

Turn 1 - I did some minor damage to two units with Chain Lightning. Tz lord miscasts, saved by the puppet. Hellcanon scatters to a miss. Trolls are stupid. Hordes advance.

Top of Turn 2 - CoR charge the Knights. Knights go first and kill 2. I loose by 1 and flee. The Knights persue. The Sallies charge the Marauder Horsemen. They strike simultaniously and the Sallie win, catch, and destroy the light cav. The EoTG priest IF'd a hex onto the WoC unit, blew his whole crew apart, but survivies unharmed.

Bottom of Turn 2 - The WoC
The Knights charge and catch the fleeing CoR. The Ogres charge a skink unit, win combat by a mile, but the skinks escape by an inch. The Chaos Giant charged the Carnisaur - doing damage, chaomping for regen, loosing combat, but hanging tough in that stubborn way. The WoC horde hit the Saurus Horde, but before the fight phase...... The Hellcanon misfired. Result, miscast to each wizard. Puppet saves the Tz Lord. Priest is sucked off the steggy into the chaos void, taking 6 saurus with him. 2nd priest on foot explodes and takes 11 more saurus and 10 Warriors.

The remaining WoC roll 24 attacks and trash the Saurus. The saurus hit back with 13 men, but the losses from the miscast are too great to overcome and they loose combat by a few. They flee and are caught and killed.

Turn 3 - 2nd Skink unit flank hits the giant and take him out with poison. He falls on the carnisaur and kills him. With only 3 Sallies left, I conceded at that point.

CRAZY, CRAZY game

Crazy indeed!

Also I had 1 Warshine in my list, although it did nothing.

I believe that turn two my WoC unit actually had 45 attacks, because they were frenzied with 2h weapons and 5 in the back rank.

I am thinking also that the WoC 'Book of Secrets' will be a GREAT magic item. Throw that with Vitich (who steals all dice that do not cast or dispel) and you have a nasty list?

Plan on reading the rules all day Thursday to get a good feel.

The Curslings rules are uber sweet. Mis your dispel roll and expect another spell back in your face.

Sorry, I'd like to point out the following:

EVERYONE HAS TO TAKE MORE CORE.

Oh, and CORE got a big boost.

If there's anything I like about the system, it's just that. Your going to see a lot more HE players with Spearmen now, mainly because they have to. No more 9% core in lists, Thank God. No army ever fought that way, so lets make our lists a little more balanced.

Granted, the 50% characters didn't help as much, but I like the core requirement.

And I hate to say it Chris, but I think your one of the types of people GW was targeting Market-Strategy wise. You don't have a bunch of the models that you would now want to feel, so go buy them!

At least, thats what I think they're trying to do. Too bad it didn't seem to work on you.

scurrdi wrote:
And I hate to say it Chris, but I think your one of the types of people GW was targeting Market-Strategy wise. You don't have a bunch of the models that you would now want to feel, so go buy them!

At least, thats what I think they're trying to do. Too bad it didn't seem to work on you.

I did it for 40k. I had three tanks in 4th... now I have 13 tanks in 5e. Fuck that.

And that's why you don't play 40k

scurrdi wrote:Sorry, I'd like to point out the following:

EVERYONE HAS TO TAKE MORE CORE.

Oh, and CORE got a big boost.

If there's anything I like about the system, it's just that. Your going to see a lot more HE players with Spearmen now, mainly because they have to. No more 9% core in lists, Thank God. No army ever fought that way, so lets make our lists a little more balanced.

Granted, the 50% characters didn't help as much, but I like the core requirement.

And I hate to say it Chris, but I think your one of the types of people GW was targeting Market-Strategy wise. You don't have a bunch of the models that you would now want to feel, so go buy them!

At least, thats what I think they're trying to do. Too bad it didn't seem to work on you.

I like the more focus on core now as well as the increase in the usefulness of even just basic troops. As said you always had the min maxing going on with core just for people to get the "good" stuff when the core infantry... well should be the core of your force and not a "minimum entry fee".

This along with the overall more bloody combat on each side is much more interesting. Never did like about warhammer was that you would have two blocks of troops run into each other, and you basically knew the outcome, and often one side would barely take any casualties while the other block would get slaughtered out of the game. Both sides meeting and casualties on both sides, now that feels like a true fantasy clash.

I agree with what Kyle said above me, and I'd love to be in Miami right now to try out the new rules with you guys.

One question to Bill and bayardnbk: beyond the craziness, was the game actually fun? More fun or less fun than 7e? (I know, it's just one game, but I'm curious )

Kyle wrote:

scurrdi wrote:Sorry, I'd like to point out the following:

EVERYONE HAS TO TAKE MORE CORE.

Oh, and CORE got a big boost.

If there's anything I like about the system, it's just that. Your going to see a lot more HE players with Spearmen now, mainly because they have to. No more 9% core in lists, Thank God. No army ever fought that way, so lets make our lists a little more balanced.

Granted, the 50% characters didn't help as much, but I like the core requirement.

And I hate to say it Chris, but I think your one of the types of people GW was targeting Market-Strategy wise. You don't have a bunch of the models that you would now want to feel, so go buy them!

At least, thats what I think they're trying to do. Too bad it didn't seem to work on you.

I like the more focus on core now as well as the increase in the usefulness of even just basic troops. As said you always had the min maxing going on with core just for people to get the "good" stuff when the core infantry... well should be the core of your force and not a "minimum entry fee".

This along with the overall more bloody combat on each side is much more interesting. Never did like about warhammer was that you would have two blocks of troops run into each other, and you basically knew the outcome, and often one side would barely take any casualties while the other block would get slaughtered out of the game. Both sides meeting and casualties on both sides, now that feels like a true fantasy clash.

It makes sense from a more "realistic" point of view. No Army in history only fielded elite troops...from the Waffen SS to U.S. Airborn. Thats bullsit. The bulk of any army is gonna be basic troops. Easier to train in bulk and get out to the front. Elit troops are more expensive to train and equip. It takes longer to get them to the battlefield and they are much harder to replace. You dont see the U.S. fielding an entire army of Green Berets or Army Rangers. I like it, just like they did with 40k.

Bill this game is make believe. I like where your head is at, but lets stick to finger paint and construction paper. . You always like to bring the real into the make believe.....

Diosamblet wrote:I agree with what Kyle said above me, and I'd love to be in Miami right now to try out the new rules with you guys.

One question to Bill and bayardnbk: beyond the craziness, was the game actually fun? More fun or less fun than 7e? (I know, it's just one game, but I'm curious )

I got smashed, but I still had fun!

KingdomCome wrote:Bill this game is make believe. I like where your head is at, but lets stick to finger paint and construction paper. . You always like to bring the real into the make believe.....

MAKE BELIEVE...NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dont be an douche. You know what Im talking about. ...spoken like a true power gamer.

KingdomCome wrote:Bill this game is make believe. I like where your head is at, but lets stick to finger paint and construction paper. . You always like to bring the real into the make believe.....

Even in make believe world of Warhammer, it's true in the fluff. It also just to me makes for a more interesting game in that your core is actually much more important and deadly, as previously it was a hurdle most used to meet just to take the "cool shit" that owned the board. As someone who was not heavy into the game before for various reasons, I'm liking this new direction of importance on core troops and them being much more useful, while the big uber shit being toned down and more purpose driven. This new version might get me back into Fantasy... just got to put together the remnants of my gobbos to make something playable after I took apart the army years ago.

Kyle wrote:

KingdomCome wrote:Bill this game is make believe. I like where your head is at, but lets stick to finger paint and construction paper. . You always like to bring the real into the make believe.....

Even in make believe world of Warhammer, it's true in the fluff. It also just to me makes for a more interesting game in that your core is actually much more important and deadly, as previously it was a hurdle most used to meet just to take the "cool shit" that owned the board. As someone who was not heavy into the game before for various reasons, I'm liking this new direction of importance on core troops and them being much more useful, while the big uber shit being toned down and more purpose driven. This new version might get me back into Fantasy... just got to put together the remnants of my gobbos to make something playable after I took apart the army years ago.

Thank you Kyle. I have an ally. Now tell us about Elmers glue and construction paper again Cesar.

The Elmers glue reference I was talking about was a way of asking you to keep it simple.... because in the real world.......I was agreeing with you. Lets not go back to the Red Dawn remake fiasco.

So in this new edition, could someone actually use three doomwheels, two plague furnaces and one bell in a skaven list of 2k. Fill the rest with core I guess. Is that too much?

Yes. it's too much. I've heard nothing but nasties about everything mentioned so, dont bring it! Actually I think yu can only bring 2 doomwheels.... Anywho, Who's the powergamer now Bill?

Well 25% percent of 2k is 500 and three Doomwheels are 450. Why couldn't I bring it? Doesn't this help out other armies in doing the same? I think this edition was made to be nastier and faster. Folks I guess would just start raising the cap on reg sized point games buying more models in a race war since it is faster to play.

No more than 2 copies of any rare unit choice no matter the points, so no you can't do some of that.

Cesar that was about as simple as it comes. What part of what I wrote baffled you. Elite troops are rare and expensive to train( takes longer to train as well) and replace as they are lost. Im not seeing what was complicated about that statement. Id dare say everyone on this forum is above average in intelligence and understood what I was trying to get across...even if they dont agree.
You either agree or dont.