Sunday 31 MAY TOURNAMENT

That sounds good. One suggestion on the field of swords scenario. The part where you get 1 VP for every 3 companies destroyed rounding up. I would add that Monsters count as 1 VP because their cost is equivilent to 3 companies. I would also add if the Monster has might, they the oppenent would get a point for killing the hero and count him as a unit so 2 points. Just my opinion. Makes it a bit more fair. Everything else sounds good so far.

I agree, unless someone can present a valid counter point, I will go with Hurricanes suggestion. A monster is normally single model/formation.

JerryB

As Solmyr pointed out, formations can vary in size, strength, and point value by a large margin. There is a big difference between taking out 60 points, 2 company formation of archers vs. taking out a 150 point troll captain.

Also, Epic Heros are big points, but not a formation. How will Epic Heros be calculated?

In the sword of fields scenario, taking out an epic would be 4 VP. Just so there is no confusion, we are using the scenarios in the book with those VP's except the small changes that we have discussed here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Jerry.

So, just to clarify:

Victory Points are determined as such:

1. The Objective (be it the High Ground or the Token based one, or Jerry's special mission).

2. Destroying Companies (Every 3 Companies = 1 VP. Monsters count as 1.

3. Killing Heroes (Epic Heroes are 4 VP, Regular Heroes are 2 VP, Monsters who have Might give an additional 1 VP.


Please correct me if this is incorrect.

Just to clarify further, it's just a straight comparison of VP for Winner/Loser? Example:

Erik and I play a game and I win by 2 VP (I had 6 to his 4). This is a Win?

If it were a draw, whats the margin to be considered a win?

And Finally, do these points directly translate to our score (each round VPs are totaled to see the overall winner)?

No, I don't think that is what jerry is saying.
Scenario 1: Sieze the prize. 10VP for taking the objective. (If it's a draw, I would suggest giving 5 VP to each. )

Scenario 2: Field of Swords: Which would include Kingslayer (4VP per EH, and 1 VP for a hero) Battle Flags (1 VP for captured standards) and To the Death (every 3 companies = 1 VP, Monsters= 1 VP)

Scenario 3 is Jerry's based on the Sieze the prize scenario with the added adjustments that Jerry has stated, like 2 VP's for tokens instead of 5.

Now, Jerry could add any of the items from field of swords to the other 2 scenarios, like king slayer or to the death to give each game more VP possiblities.

That's just my 2 cents.

Oh and the deployment would be shieldwall (page 79). All the scenarios are explained on page 78 and 79.

Let's go strictly by the book on this tournament or I can see a over a week's worth of debate and we really don't have time for that now. So let's use the point system as presented in the book and later we can discuss a more satisfy system, if any at all.

The over all winner should be base on total wins. If based on total victory points is not possible for some to win if the had drawn one or more times? Am I wrong?

A win is a win, I see no margins. If you have 6 points and you opponent has 5, 6 wins. Just look at history and you have numerous example of narrow wins. Some say the Germans really won Kurz (if they had not left the field), but please do not debate on Kurz, I just using it as an example.

And just to be clear on Alter Evil, I will place an odd number of tokens and the player who amasses the most tokens, wins. No debate, no arguments, just present you tokens. This represents control of the objective, fair?

I am reluctant to do shield wall, for this presents an opportunity for a player to hang back and just shoot. That's why I can up with the Alter Evil as I want the players to engage and mix it up. If I player just sits back, then his opponent will win easily by taking the objective.

Does this clear up everything? I leave here today at 4:30PM and it will lights out for me until Sunday, so call me on my phone (if you do not have it and want please PM before 4:00PM).

JerryB

Shield Wall merely states how the deployment is not an actually scenario. It is both armies set up on opposite long edges. And I think you need to keep track of VP if not you are most likely going to have a tie with how many wins there are. For example you have 1 player with 3 wins and 2 players with 2 wins and 2 players with 1 win and 1 player with 0 wins. So you have all these ties. So I would suggest keeping track of the victory points to break the ties.

Hurricane, sorry, I did not mean to disregard victory points, just not determining the winner based on solely victory points.

Numbers of wins first and victory points to break ties, agree? Fair?

Jerryb

gg, just do it like they do it at every other lotr tournament.
well, at least the east european GT result that popped up on google
Major Victory 35
Minor Victory 30
Draw 10
Minor Defeat 5
Major Defeat 1
Concede 0

Sounds good

Everyone agree on Europe LotR/ Neveda-San's point system? Fair?

3 hours left for me.

JerryB

What is going to be the difference between a minor victory or a major victory? Thats my question because if we use that point system then we have to have a way to determine what size victory or defeat it is.

Otherwise I'm ok with it.

Are we playing the Field of Swords mission? I was under the impression that our 3 missions were:

1. Sieze the Prize
2. Altar of Evil
3. High Ground

Jerry, didn't you say that you didn't want the pure "kill each other" mission?


Sorry, not to be annoying, just want to make sure, thats all.

Scurrdi, I have no idea where you got high ground from. The mission are as follows:

1. Atar of Evil
2. Sieze the Prize
3. Field of Swords

In that order, 6X4 tables (unless more players show up then 4X4).

11:30 AM show, 12:00 PM start. Game one 1.5 to 2 hours, 30 min lunch break, game two 1.5 to 2 hours, 15 break, game three 1.5 to 2 hours, prizes awarded.

I gone by 7:30 PM.

JerryB

Kool! That answers that then!

How about determining Major vs. Minor Victories?

I change my mind about having a scenario only having the players run at each, hence the "Alter of Evil".

I believe Dark Eldar came up with a satisfactory answer for major and minor VP points. Could you explain the flaw?

JerryB

The question is how do you know if you score a minor victory or a major victory?

What is that scale?

Dark Eldar's post says this:

If you get a Major Victory, then you get 35 points.

Etc, etc.

Over the three rounds. Then you total up the score and the one with the most points wins.


Our question is, what is the margin of VPs to determine a major victory, a minor victory, or a draw.

Okay, lets go back to the book as the source. Forget how they do over the pond.

The winning is determined by the amount of total wins, ties will be broken by total victory points.

....or anyone who slips me a $20.00.
JerryB

I am off the board. I am leaving straight to Sunshine, so if you want to beat me up, go there. I should be there by 5:00PM. I am staying for about an hour. Not to play (Magic night) but to pick up an WotR order.

See you Sunday, have your army list!

Good luck!
Over $200.00 in prizes.

JerryB

I wasn't saying sounds good to what Elder Guy said, I was trying to agree with Jerry on what we had originally agreed on. Which keeps changing. But I guess Jerry is gone for the weekend! I don't understand what a major, minor or draw would consist of. Nothing in the book on that, which is exactly what I was trying to avoid.

major victory, minor victory, draw, etc is how games workshop runs their GTs (Grand Tournaments) for 40k, fantasy, and lotr in every country available. Each scenario, whether capture objective or whatnot, lists what is required to achieve a major victory, minor victory, draw, etc.

For instance, in a game of 5 objectives the scoring could look something like:

Major Victory if a player controls three or more objectives than their opponent.

Minor Victory if a player controls more objectives than their opponent.
Draw if each player controls an equal amount of objectives.

Minor Defeat if a player controls one less objective than their opponent.

Major Defeat if a player controls no objectives.

Victory points (taking into the account of points lost on each side) can also be taken into account when determining the end value of the scenario for the player.

basically, what constitutes a major, minor, and draw is reliant on the scenario being played.

This is usually the standard (unless I got something wrong) for GW tournaments and you won't find any of it in any of the rule books, but w/e, I was just throwing that out there- I won't even be able to make it on Sunday. :/

Chris is quoting from teh GW GT and RTT rule docs.

Yes, and that works fine and dandy for LOTR.

However, we are playing WoTR, which doesn't have any GT rules as far as I know (since the game came out a month or two ago at most).

Hence, our dilemna. And I agree about the objectives bit, cause that makes sense. I guess we'll find out tomorrow!