Killin Teclis *suggestions*

I found a way with the Skaven, 2 casts of Wither on that unit and he's dead, since he's toughnes 2

I don't think stat to 0 means death- otherwise the lore of shadow minus toughness spell would kill units.

I think it does. I believe I read it in the BRB. Have to go look Ina bit.

Stat of zero auto fails tests for that stat

Why does he not have to be in the front is there a special rule for him?

Garry wrote:Why does he not have to be in the front is there a special rule for him?

No special rule Garry. If your front rank is already "full" with other characters and the command group then additional characters can be placed in the 2nd rank.

KingdomCome wrote:

jspyd3rx wrote:By my count, around the end of September should see around 6x HE players. They are going to be the most army played here in Miami by year's end. Who knows how many more will get sucked in by the new starter too. We are going to see a lot of Teclis in the future.

God I sure hope not. Every other game is against HE? That would make a boring scene. It's kinda getting that way with skaven... ie lots of people starting them. It seems we'll be having lots of mirror matches.

not true. look at my and luis, each of us play skaven but have two different lists

and about the High Elf band wagon...look at all of the Band Fucking Cant Think For Themselves Wagon 40k Players that are jumping onto Fantasy at the moment. It is like the blood angel codex, before the book we had 2 players after the book everyone and their mum was a Blood Angel player. The Teclis list can be stopped, i agree with Matt, 100%. I will refuse to play against the bullshit Teclis list, even if it means losing a tournament. It is bet able but it is going to require thought and months of playing against it. I think who ever learns to bet the list should keep it off the forums cause next thing you know every one is going to be playing that list. Just the like leadership boom daemon list that once it popped up everyone built it and used it. and yet at ard boyz it got its face fucked hard by pure Khrone armies. Fun cause alot of forums at the time where saying that a khrone army could not do it. Wait...what if you charged the unit with a Bloodthristthe with it declare a challenge...... or how about drop 3 mortars and a hellsturm battery on the unit........

Oh and by the way I can't wait to be told i am playing an army wrong by some dump fuck who thinks he is better cause he saw a list on-line and pressed print.

Dakai wrote:

KingdomCome wrote:

jspyd3rx wrote:By my count, around the end of September should see around 6x HE players. They are going to be the most army played here in Miami by year's end. Who knows how many more will get sucked in by the new starter too. We are going to see a lot of Teclis in the future.

God I sure hope not. Every other game is against HE? That would make a boring scene. It's kinda getting that way with skaven... ie lots of people starting them. It seems we'll be having lots of mirror matches.

not true. look at my and luis, each of us play skaven but have two different lists

and about the High Elf band wagon...look at all of the Band Fucking Cant Think For Themselves Wagon 40k Players that are jumping onto Fantasy at the moment. It is like the blood angel codex, before the book we had 2 players after the book everyone and their mum was a Blood Angel player. The Teclis list can be stopped, i agree with Matt, 100%. I will refuse to play against the bullshit Teclis list, even if it means losing a tournament. It is bet able but it is going to require thought and months of playing against it. I think who ever learns to bet the list should keep it off the forums cause next thing you know every one is going to be playing that list. Just the like leadership boom daemon list that once it popped up everyone built it and used it. and yet at ard boyz it got its face fucked hard by pure Khrone armies. Fun cause alot of forums at the time where saying that a khrone army could not do it. Wait...what if you charged the unit with a Bloodthristthe with it declare a challenge...... or how about drop 3 mortars and a hellsturm battery on the unit........

Oh and by the way I can't wait to be told i am playing an army wrong by some dump fuck who thinks he is better cause he saw a list on-line and pressed print.

Wow. Ignorance followed by bitterness. I'll try to address this point for point. Skaven against skaven is a mirror match. They are one of the few blessed army books that can make multiple builds, but the bottom line is they're still skaven. How much fun could it possibly be to play skaVen vs skaven all the time? Not very. The 40k players jumping on the fantasy bandwagon? So you don't want to play more people? Fantasy finally has solid AND fun rules and you're bitter because people want to play? Get over yourself. You're not the only one that wants to play this game and you shouldn't get on peoples case just because they do want to play.
Oh and fyi only two people played blood angles prior to the new book because they SUCKED. Go ahead tell me differently. They got a very good book and you expect people not to play? Once again get over yourself.
If you don't want to play against Teclis at the cost of losing a tournament game because its bullshit, I don't know what to tell you. You seem like the none competitive type and instead enjoy more fluff. Nothing wrong with that, but there's also nothing wrong with a guy bringing a Teclis bomb to play with. It's in the book and meant to be used.
If forum fantasy/40k pisses you off, don't read it. People are going to share ideas and if they're good ones , they'll be applied. I'm appalled at the sheer venom and contempt in your post and I hope I'm not the only one that feels this way here.

ShadowMaster wrote:

Diosamblet wrote:If Teclis is such a game breaker, you can always refuse to play an opponent who fields him. Better to look for a game elsewhere than waste your time playing a match you won't enjoy.

You know our group is too small to act like that. Embrace the challenge.
Besides, you gonna forfeit your tournement game round too?

I've been dwelling on that comment for some time now.

Is our group too small to turn down a game, or too small to play a list like that?

I don't have any problem with Rob's last Teclis list (him and I play and it's always a thought exercise for the two of us, and in spite of the yelling we're cool with each other after the match).

I had a much longer post, and I'm going to err to the side of common sense:

I really can't say much more that's nice about the 8th edition metagame, so I'm not going to say any more on that subject.

The fact that we're having a 3 page long discussion on how to deal with One Single Character, is a testament to the fact that GW did a shitty job play testing as usual, and then fucked up on the chance to errata their mistakes.

There are 3 things that make Teclis much more powerful than before.

1. Spells are more destructive in 8th period. Everyone knows this. Spells like Purple Sun, Dwellers Below, Final Transmutation can completely wreck a unit, while other spells like Pit of Shades and Comet of Cassandora are easier to cast under the new rules. His ability to cast with IF hasn't changed, it's just that he can cast with IF on spells that now cost 20+ to cast and are very destructive. And he can do it with 6 dice.

2. He can choose his lore before the battle starts. I don't really need to go into how advantageous this is to the high elf player or the fact that he is the only character in the game that can do this.

3. He gets D3 extra power and dispel dice. Sure , he's not the only one who can do this, but in a new magic phase where your roll determines how many powerdice you have, he can still manage to get a decent amount of powerdice every turn.

So I think it's natural that we're all sitting around here talking about how to deal with this Character.

All the other shit on this particular thread is a matter of personal taste. To each his own.

We are all friends for the most part and I meant our group is too small to turn down a game.

Everyone at Sunshine builds tough lists. MANY players have gone on some win streaks. My Daemons. Chris with Elves. Stephen with Kholeck. Matt with his Slann and twin EoTGs. Steph with his VC.

If you gave it a few unsuccessful shots, I'm sure you could ask Rob to play something different. Otherwise, why punish Rob because he currently has a tough build? Besides...... Rob didn't win the lone 8th Edition tournement - it was some guy with the "suddenly nerfed" DoC.

I will always differ to the dice gods. Depending on one model to win you the game can go in any direction. I have played this way and in the opposite. End result was always a fun game win or lose with great players here in Miami. I will admit that I am a big bandwagoneer. I have been playing for just about one year. I have played most armies in 40k except Daemons, Inq., CMs, Eldar and IG. Everything has been new to me and I want to keep trying more out. Does that make me a bad person because I want to try and play new stuff? If GW comes out with a new model that I fall in love with and want to try and play games based around it, does that make me a 'tard? Anyway, let me get away from ranting. Regardless of how overpowered a model is, it will always come down to the player running the army. Last tournament in 40k, Necron player won which is supposedly the worst 40k codex around. With regards to Fantasy, my ogres will be raped by anyone casting purple sun on me. So it is up to me to overcome this. Now why is it soo wrong of me to ask for advice? Ugh, must resist ranting! I have and will always play anyone in either game at SAG. I enjoy the game and tremendous challenge you all bring. Even with all your attitude Dakkai, I would love to play whatever army you bring. We are very lucky to have many players here in Dade and Broward. Remember in many other parts of the country many people have no where to play. So let's be civil in our hobby so that we can bring new players and make South Florida a great competitive and fun place for war-gaming.

@ ovich
But all those nasty spells you mentioned aren't being used by the bomb rob is using. As far as I can tell he's using the super buff from the lore of beasts. If that's the case, he's using a death star type unit. Easiest way to deal with if is to war machine it into oblivion. A unit like that has to cost around 800 points with Teclis. That's a sizeable portion of ones army and doesn't leave much to cover other weaknesses.

Or

Get your own death star and deal with his while the rest of the army goes after one another.

Autarch (CM) wrote:

I really can't say much more that's nice about the 8th edition metagame, so I'm not going to say any more on that subject.

There's a metagame? Already? I think we're overreacting on first impressions, in my opinion.

And what could you say about the last edition's metagame, where half the armies were crap while a couple auto-beat face?

Vycem wrote:

Autarch (CM) wrote:

I really can't say much more that's nice about the 8th edition metagame, so I'm not going to say any more on that subject.

There's a metagame? Already? I think we're overreacting on first impressions, in my opinion.

And what could you say about the last edition's metagame, where half the armies were crap while a couple auto-beat face?

I think most games like WHFB would have a metagame; but hey, that's neither here nor there - as the expression goes.

I'd say most of the armies being crap and the other auto-beat face to be a bit of an exaggeration, frankly so. There was obvious 'Codex creep' in the army books, but I never felt anything turned an entire phase of the game on its head and took it for a spin.

Autarch (CM) wrote:I think most games like WHFB would have a metagame; but hey, that's neither here nor there - as the expression goes.

I'd say most of the armies being crap and the other auto-beat face to be a bit of an exaggeration, frankly so. There was obvious 'Codex creep' in the army books, but I never felt anything turned an entire phase of the game on its head and took it for a spin.

I'm not arguing about the metagame. I'm arguing about passing judgment on how "the game works" so early in all of our learning process.

As for armies being crap, I dunno. I played a LOT with Ogre Kingdoms, and it was just sad - the one game I won was against another Ogre player. I took out a High Elf army for a spin, and without having ever practiced with it once, took 2nd on a tournament. That just shouldn't happen in any game.

I don't know, I think that a lot of these "Unstoppable" tactics are just tactics we've never encountered before because the game changed so much and all the tools that we rely on aren't working as we expect them to. But that shouldn't mean that we should seek to "fix" the game around what we know, maybe we should just work on developing new tools.

Vycem wrote:

Autarch (CM) wrote:I think most games like WHFB would have a metagame; but hey, that's neither here nor there - as the expression goes.

I'd say most of the armies being crap and the other auto-beat face to be a bit of an exaggeration, frankly so. There was obvious 'Codex creep' in the army books, but I never felt anything turned an entire phase of the game on its head and took it for a spin.

I'm not arguing about the metagame. I'm arguing about passing judgment on how "the game works" so early in all of our learning process.

As for armies being crap, I dunno. I played a LOT with Ogre Kingdoms, and it was just sad - the one game I won was against another Ogre player. I took out a High Elf army for a spin, and without having ever practiced with it once, took 2nd on a tournament. That just shouldn't happen in any game.

I don't know, I think that a lot of these "Unstoppable" tactics are just tactics we've never encountered before because the game changed so much and all the tools that we rely on aren't working as we expect them to. But that shouldn't mean that we should seek to "fix" the game around what we know, maybe we should just work on developing new tools.

I don't mind passing judgment on my process of learning 8th ed and how stuff works in this edition, it's my impression of the game.

Getting back on track to the thread in context to that, I dislike the idea of a wizard automatically casting a spell on any result that is not 1,2,3,4,5,6 on 6D6 - As an example.

The odds are really small (I didn't want to mess it up myself so I looked it up) - about 1.5% chance of that 'straight' happening (thanks to those who play Farkle with keen interest for that factoid). Now, that -feels- really small to me as a player. I don't know of any other models in WHFB who do their 'thing' with a 1.5% chance of 'not an instantaneous success'. Not only that, but a result of 1,2,3,4,5,6 will still yield Teclis a result of 26 on his casting dice (he does get a +5, right?) 6 dice doesn't feel impossible to produce with the kit HE players have to bump up their power dice total.


On a lighter note, maybe this type of success rates for cool special models in 8th ed will be the norm. That way a thread like this wouldn't crop up because everyone has a special character that does things as overwhelmingly well as Teclis does for a High Elf magic phase.

EDIT: If I rambled, forgive me. I put that all together in a hurry.

It sounds like machine/hordes where things are designed to intentionally beat face. No creamy center, just spikes, clubs, and bad attitudes. I wouldn't be too opposed to see whfb take a turn for the extremly beat face aspect. I mean these are your armies most legendary heroes. Wait.... wasn't that 5th edition?

True, I have been reading a lot on how many spellcasters end up exploding themselves. The dice gods might favor a deathstar model/ unit sometimes, but not always.

Best way to get rid of Teclis is by threatening the owner with obscenes ammounts of bodily violence if he places the model on the table.

Vycem wrote:

Autarch (CM) wrote:

I really can't say much more that's nice about the 8th edition metagame, so I'm not going to say any more on that subject.

There's a metagame? Already? I think we're overreacting on first impressions, in my opinion.

Of the countless games I play or have played, they all have metagames. Only one I found that doesnt seem to have one is INFINITY but that is debateable I have no doubt.

I gave Teclis quite a scare the other day right before Rob pummeled my DoC with the Phoenix Star.

If a roll or two had gone my way I might have won

I was just thinking about getting a starter too! Is there a group that plays?

I played in a tournament up here just this sat.

My final round was against a HE player with Teclis, in a huge pheonix guard unit (40ish), sitting in the second rank with the first taken up by characters.

A combination of 90 crossbowmen and the -1T/-1S Death spell did the trick. Massacre in my favor.

3rd place because of painting scores.

Great job, let them feel our pain at your hands now, hehe.