RANT: We need venue alternatives!

Am I the only one who really hates Sunshine's league system? Not only do I not have the time to play more than one game at a time when I go (because of life, work, etc), but I'm not stupid, I *know* I have weak armies (Ogre Kingdoms for Fantasy, Necrons for 40k). I don't mind struggling to win and just trying to become a better player, but paying for the honor of having someone beat my face in so they can get free stuff while I'm *forced* to buy something really discourages me from going very much. I mean, it's not like I don't buy plenty of things in support of the store.

I kind of wish there were venue alternatives. I like Sunshine and all but damn if the league doesn't kill gaming for me. I know I play gimpy armies, I like their fluff, I like their look (ok, I got great deals on them because other people didn't want them), and in the case of fantasy, I know I need several games in to get used to the system. I don't like feeling like I'm punished for it, and I don't like paying to play with the stuff I already paid for...the hobby is expensive enough as is! Why would anyone "play for fun" when you're paying, and victory = getting stuff vs losing = losing money?

I'd almost be less worked up if Joel was just charging for use of his tables and terrain, then I could kind of justify the expense.

Anyone have any ideas? Are there any stores left in Miami I don't know about?

Think of it as a $2 table fee.

Your coming off as pretty cheap IMO. $2 is pretty low and win or loose you earn points twords free stuff.

Forgot to add - your other store options are War and Pieces in Davie or Tate's in Lauderhill

You're not the only one who feels this way.

I personally think it's a bunch of bullshit that people MUST pay to play and no longer have the option to choose if they want it to go towards the league or not. It's not about the 2 dollars, Endre, you're not being cheap... fuck the fact that it's 2 dollars.. It's the principle.

Why do we even call it a league? Is there some sort of ladder system? NO. Is there some sort of ranking? NO.

It's not a league.. It's just a way for Joel to make some extra money since people aren't forking for ridiculous GW prices at his store when they can go on EBAY and get for half the price.

Funny how when the Dragon was open, there was still an option. Now that it's gone.. low and behold, we MUST pay to play.

You know, I never thought about it the way you put it Endre, : Why should I have to pay to play with models that I've already fucking paid for !

I'm waiting for Erik to open up his gaming store. For now, we just have to settle with his Man Cave... which is even hotter and more suffocating than Joels... but at least it's FREE and I get Free soda to boot !

Thank you Stephan! I was just writing the same thing:

It's not about the money per se, it's about lack of choice. It's about the fact that I'm forced to pay a ridiculous free for a premium hobby where I already spend hundreds for the privilege of playing (ask Joel just how much I buy from him).

Look, you say it's only $2, but do the math. Most of the time I pay for ONE game I have time to play, and I lose. At the end, I end up spending $40 to get the "$30 store credit"

Whoop de doo. Why would I want store credit? If I want something, I buy it.

It's not about being cheap. If Joel wants to charge me a fee for the use of his table that's one thing. It will still suck, but I can force myself when I *REALLY* want to play. But being FORCED to join a league? I don't WANT to join a league. I don't WANT stupid "points" so he can force me to spend $40 on his store based on how often I play.

I don't like that there's no such thing as a pick-up, friendly, stress-free game. Every game is a "I have to win because I get points to get free stuff with!" competition match.

I'm never going to really have a full day to play the supposed three games for the fee. I'm not going to even win all that much. I don't see why I should be punished for it.

I agree 100%. Listen, FIU has plenty of empty classrooms, with huge tables, which are free and clear to use whenever the room itself isn't in use. If people have terrain, we could easily form a gaming club in the college nearby, and play for free. I'm willing to help organize that, assuming people would be interested in an alternative to paying to play. I personally have no use for store creds.. I have everything I need for Chaos, and no desire to build a new army. I love playing to simply play.

Anyone interested? We could probably even get new blood interested in the hobby because of the huge student population.

I play for fun! I mean I still make competitive lists and try, but I don't give a flyin' 'f for winning or losing, most of the time

There's lots of options out there if you can push it. Part of the problem is having consistency. We tried the Elk's Lodge thing awhile back and the crowd wasn't consistant enough. An offical club at FIU might work, if you can keep somebody into warhammer from FIU (or get me a teaching job there, I'd LOVE to be the faculty sponsor for that!)

But the Elk's lodge was more money than Joel's. It was a lot bigger and a little out of the way for the Kendall folk but I liked it. However it was more money.

I get your point, there was a time I had to pay $2 to play 1 game of 40k and another $2 for 1 game of WFB. Then again just think of it this way, what can you do for $2.

feen039 wrote:I get your point, there was a time I had to pay $2 to play 1 game of 40k and another $2 for 1 game of WFB. Then again just think of it this way, what can you do for $2.

Two double cheeseburgers!

i play at joels to play.id be all for a gaming club but my schelld is radom every week due to my line of work so id still get a few games in joels on days there isnt the gaming club. i say do it! only 2 questions, fiu north or south? will there be cheeseburgers?

Hmm... I like cheeseburgers!

NurgleNick wrote:I agree 100%. Listen, FIU has plenty of empty classrooms, with huge tables, which are free and clear to use whenever the room itself isn't in use. If people have terrain, we could easily form a gaming club in the college nearby, and play for free. I'm willing to help organize that, assuming people would be interested in an alternative to paying to play. I personally have no use for store creds.. I have everything I need for Chaos, and no desire to build a new army. I love playing to simply play.

Anyone interested? We could probably even get new blood interested in the hobby because of the huge student population.

Now there's an interesting idea! We'd need an FIU student to set up a club, not sure what the regulations are at that school.

Also, what's the Elk club?

I'm an FIU student. I'm sure I can handle that.

It would be the University Park campus -- the one off of 16th and 107th Ave.

And, to be frank, it's dubious that we'd even need "authorization" to play. What an official club would allow us to do is reserve rooms for gaming. I may, however, be able to work something out with the local anime club in FIU, who frequently manage to reserve entire auditoriums for an evening. Really, the college campus is an extremely untapped resource.

Also, Bill, would a Warhammer 40,000 tournament held at FIU with cash prizes be considered gambling, considering that it's a game of skill, with some random elements? I'd like to be able to offer something in lieu of store credit.

If you go to Sharp Shooters in Kendall to play pool for 2-3 hours you need to pay WAY more than $4 (closer to $30).

If you go to Boomers in Davie and play on the mini golf course you pay $8 per man for the 1 hour game.

Sure FREE is better - but $2 is nothing, especially when you get it back in a store credit at some point.

ShadowMaster wrote:If you go to Sharp Shooters in Kendall to play pool for 2-3 hours you need to pay WAY more than $4 (closer to $30).

If you go to Boomers in Davie and play on the mini golf course you pay $8 per man for the 1 hour game.

Sure FREE is better - but $2 is nothing, especially when you get it back in a store credit at some point.

Again, you're missing the point. If Joel says "It costs $2 to rent a table for the afternoon because I need to charge something to keep the store going", I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But no, instead he institutes a "League" system where I'm basically:
A) Punished for playing a popular game (games with less of a following don't have to pay)
B) Punished because I don't have time to play more than one game at a time (people who can stay there all day don't have to pay as much)
C) Punished because I play outdated armies/I lose a lot, so I'm no longer playing for fun, I'm playing to feel like a dumbass for pumping money into other people's free stuff.
D) I'm FORCED to spend $40 on a $30 item at full price (Because that's how much the "free stuff" ends up fucking costing me)...in theory, because it's not like I go often enough for there be accurate records of my games. To be perfectly honest, most of the time I play I'm paying Joel $2 for either Chris or Rufus to get free stuff.

Where is this "free stuff" you keep going on about? Because I don't see it. All I see is a big kick in the nuts. I go to the store and end up feeling like a dumbass being milked because I'm not a regular.

Not only that, your examples illustrate my point:
"If you go to Sharp Shooters in Kendall to play pool for 2-3 hours you need to pay WAY more than $4 (closer to $30)." --- Yes, you're paying closer to $30 to play with their tables, their balls, their pool cues. You're paying to rent their game.

"If you go to Boomers in Davie and play on the mini golf course you pay $8 per man for the 1 hour game." --- Again, you're paying for their course, their balls, their golf club. Again, you're paying to rent their game.

$2 to play at his table. PLUS THE HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS TO PLAY *YOUR GAME*. Hundreds of dollars, I may add, that oftentimes are paid at that venue! The only way your examples even correlate would be if Joel had painted armies and we were paying to rent them!

Once again Bill , it's not about the quantity of money involved, it's about not having the option to say " no" " I'm not interested in league play" .

You're comparing gaming to fee- for -service entertainment, but that doesn't hold water for me. In store gaming has been traditionally free . For the same reasons we talked about above : You an always do it yourself. With the examples you mentioned, you have to have your own pool table (too expensive and bulky), your own arcade, or your own minigolf course to do it yourself..

I knew this would be a problem eventually for Joel and I told him as such.

Joel, if you're reading this : Allow people to chose if they want to do "league" play or not , instead of creating disgruntled customers who will continue looking for other places to play.

Wait a second, this is starting to sound familiar isn't it?

We (you) do have the option to say NO. Say you schedule something at someone's house or go to Tates etc.

Wow Max lives!

Stephan, Don't forget the "free lunches and desserts" my wife make too, ya bastard! I'm working on the AC, but it aint cheap! Hey, wait a minute. I could 3 dollars a person and fix the AC........

Hmm... 3 dollars a person eh?

If food's included then I'm game!

Your man cave aint bad. New and furnished. If people are complaining put a jar for shoving dollars into. Call it donations for air and buy a window unit or fan.

as long as joel is the only one with a store than we have to deal with it, other wise erik's place is great, i try having people over sometimes too, but joel's is the most convenient for people just to go and know people will be there, i think the league thing is stupid, but small price to pay for a decent gaming community.

So a table fee is OK, but a league fee is not? Really, Who cares what he calls it? You guys are not making a strong argument.

It's a $2 table fee. That's how I've always viewed it. You can stay all day for that price.

My example is valid because you are using his stuff. He does provide the boards and the terrain. Sometimes you get air. You can pee there if your brave enough. If you go to sharpshooters with your own cue, you still pay the same fee.

I undertsand your angle Endre. I show up a couple of times per week and I usually only play one game. I can live with $2 for 2-3 hours of entertainment. At some point I get a free blister as a bonus. I think it is a fair entertainment value. I can understand if you feel otherwise, but we do disagree.

Erik has the man-cave. I have a battleboard, terrain, and a car. Otherwise you guys need to come up to Broward.

Hurricane wrote: I'm working on the AC, but it aint cheap!

You going for the personal room a/c, like what mitsubishi makes? - or do you have a little extra tonnage on your current system and you can just tie it in(because that would be easy)?

I did a tie in from the main duct. I was supervised by my brother in law who does commerical duct work. He's too big to get in the attic. However, it just doesnt blow strong enough to cool the room. And the room faces South and takes the brunt of the sun and heat during the afternoon. The room is completely insulated but it won't cool. So, I have two options. I could have an AC guy come out and take a look at it. At worst he will say I need a bigger AC unit (btw, the house cools really well). Or i get a window unit, but I hear that is not very cost effective. My power bill already is about 300 a month. So, not sure what to do.