RANT: We need venue alternatives!

I feel more compelled to make purchases from a store owner who doesn't make me uncomfortable. I have money. Joel's job is to convince me, through atmosphere, customer service, friendliness, and merchandise variety, to spend my money. So far, he's doing a very, very poor job of it.

that last post says it all at this point

LOL. Aahhh Michael, keep eating your popcorn and enjoying the show. You rapscallion, you.

Oh well, I tried to do a little rabble rousing... but I guess people are willing to accept mediocrity.

Such is life...

Excuse me, but what we have is below mediocrity.

Ovich wrote:Oh well, I tried to do a little rabble rousing... but I guess people are willing to accept mediocrity.

Such is life...

Stephan and Nick last time I checked you guy have benefitted enormously from the league. Both of you win consistantly. Stephan last I hear people didn't want you playing in the Fantasy tournament because your such a cheese master and rules lawyer. You guys are part of the reason Endre doesn't like the league. Your the cheese heads that pound opponents into the ground to get your credit or win a tournament. So I ask why are you so fucking concerned about the league. I understand why Endre and Jerry may not like it...Jerry's troops can't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. But you guys are bitching just to bitch.
It seems to me because of your issues with Joel your cutting your nose off to spite your face.

OMFG BILL... you still don't get the fact that it's not about the 2 fucking dollars or the 30 dollar store credit. It's about trying to create a better gaming environment.

A year and a half ago when the Dragon was breathing down Joels neck look at all the wonderful changes that happened. Joel pushed his wall back, sort of fixed the AC, bought a T.V, made more space on the sides, fixed up his register area, bought new terrain, even cleaned up his bathroom !. On top of that, you had a choice of whether to pay 2 dollars and be in the league or not. You also had a choice of where you wanted to play.

Now it seems things have crept back to the way things were before the dragon opened that led to such discontent. The sides of the store are always full of crap and inventory. The AC always seems like it's on the fritz. The bathroom cleaning stalled. The T.V is busted. But just to throw salt in the wound, now you have no choice, you have to pay 2 bucks to play.

To me it just feels like a kick in the gums, especially to those gamers who remained loyal to Joel during the time that the Dragon was opened.

Well, i spoke to Joel on wenesday and what i got from it is that is NOT mandatory to pay $2 to play, wether it goes to league play or not.
One thing that changed is that if you want a game to count towards the league play, then the other guy also has to be playing for league play.
Another thing he mentioned is that you must decide ahead of time wether you are going to play for league or not, not come after you won 3 games at the end of the day and go "hey btw, here is my $2 for the league".

If i remember corectly (my memmory is not to good sometimes) he never mentioned that it was mandotory $2 fee to use a table.

Seems like we're getting some conflicted messages..

Bill you wanna find out once and for all? Although I'm probably going by there tomorrow.

"totally unrelated to the thread"

Hey stefan, i liked the Hebrew Hammer avatar better than this one, it had more chracter !

I should play the dwarves. The "jews" of the fantasy world.

Stephen, you are re-writing history. Joel did move the rear wall back, Jerry and Will moved the wall back. Joel did not fixed up the register area, Jerry fixed up the register area up (twice)! Joel did not fixed up the board game shelving, Jerry fixed up the board gaming and so on....

Joel did get the TV but, Jerry put up. Joel did put and re-order the FOW shelving (Will fixed up the FOW paint area and book section). There are several other items, but most of the work was done by me with Joel handing me a hammer or small effort on his part. I have taken an active constructive course to improving things and not just complaining and contributing nothing to community.

All this happen over a span of 3 years (2006 to 2009). Yes some of it happen due to other stores (not just Dragons).

But most from me constantly trying to get Joel to improve his store, and not by me instulting him (although we both have had our moments). A lot came right out of my wallet with no compensation from anybody. I truly (although lately I am changing) that we needed Sunshine to stay in business to have a gaming resource.

JerryB

From what Joel told ME on Wednesday, lol, is that you pay $2 regardless. Everything else Luis said is true, about league and who you play against for points, etc. etc.

I think it changes day to day.... or person to person

Everyone agree's on this (Joel included) Joel is one of the most dis-organized human beings anyone has meet.

Remember, there is over a dozen brains working against him on this issue.

JerryB

Just got one last thing to say on this point, and I think most will agree, it's all fine and good to rant a little on the boards, but it's bullshit that certain people are just going to joel and letting him know exactly who is saying shit and what they're saying, I wasn't thrilled to be confronted about it and i'm sure neither are the other people who have been or probably will be, i have defended joel on some points and disagreed with him on others, SO HAS EVERYONE ELSE! so the people throwing names joels way quit that shit cause its : A: being a hipocrit(spelling sucks) and B: just annoying

Joel visits the board from time to time, i dont think anyone mentioned any names..at least im hoping so.

It is a public forum, he has lurk before, and none of this is really new, he knows pretty much what everyone says about him, hence the reason he is not on now.

I have always confronted him in person about all issue. I reminded him that I had discussed this very issue with over two years ago, he can not recall.

JerryB

its not joel lurking, he's told me who's out there talking shit about everyone on this thread, if he's lurking whatever i could care less but my point from before was there are a couple people who wanna be joel's informant or some shit and thats pretty amazing of them seeing as how they are on this thread themselves!

Jerry,

I know you've put alot of hard work into that store. and I commend you for it.. and I apologize for my lewd comment before, it was inappropriate. I was just upset that you feel all I'm doing is complaining.

What you've done for Joel, you've done out of the goodness of your heart and a desire to see the community grow. But not all of us have the time or the desire to help someone who doesn't seem to want to help themselves. I've offered Joel lots' of ideas, but he never takes any of them seriously.

So I bid this long and horrendously ineffective thread adieu, and hope that over time, things get better.

So I had a lengthy talk with Joel. Imagine my surprise when he confronted me about this thread - I'm not sure if he's reading or people are talking or what, but hey, at least he's involved and I stand by what I said.

I explained my side, he explained his, and I've been paying careful attention to this thread.

This is what he told me with regards to the new league system: we either pay $2 to be entered in the league or just $2 for a table rental fee for the games. Both players have to agree beforehand to count it as a league game before it can count for league, upside is you can get your points, etc. Otherwise it's a non-league game. The upside of the non-league game I believe (other than not having the pressure of money at stake) is that you can play different games on the same day. Woo I say. Woo.
He mentioned he was against one person playing league and one not, and I agree. How is it a friendly game if one person has money riding on it?

On the point of there being a fee, period: When I initially started this thread, I was leaning towards there not being a fee on the basis that this is an expensive hobby already and the accommodations are not the best. After reading this thread, talking to him, and giving the matter some thought, I have backed off that position.

At the end of the day, there is ONE game store in Miami, the rest are quite a drive off. And say what we will about Sunshine, but it does offer some things:
1. Real terrain. I've been doing research, and there aren't many stores that spend the money setting up real terrain to play with. Granted, we're partly indebted to Jerry for this, but the fact that we have SEVERAL realms of battle boards as well as official GW terrain is amazing compared to what some other stores offer. I mean, I've seen him scraping away the top of a table with a razor blade just to install those side boards.
2. 20% discount. LOTS of stores don't give any discounts. Not to mention he gives discounts on lots of other games too.
3. He works with the customers to a degree to get them what they want. Hell, he offers Layaway! Did you guys know that? I didn't. He told this to a coworker of mine I got to try WFB and went to buy his very first unit.
4. Flexible hours. I didn't realize so many gaming stores closed early until I researched it.

So yeah, while there are plenty of negatives to the store, I have to step back and grudgingly acknowledge what it does have. If we're honest about it, he doesn't have to do any of the above because lets face it...we don't have other options except maybe for shopping. But without a neutral hub, we can't meet other gamers and get games going.

Plus lets face it: the internet undercuts his sales. A LOT of people shop online. Even I'm guilty of jumping on a totally sweet deal when I run into one. But I do try to support the store and purchase from it on a somewhat regular basis. I mean, we've all seen plenty of stores go belly up, I feel it's in my best interest to throw some support to keep such a place going. Hell, whenever I go out of town and find a gaming store, I'll try to throw a few bucks their way (though minimally since they usually charge retail).

We talk about how the store could do all these things to become a true Nerdvana, and I wish I was more like Jerry in taking a proactive stance in bettering it, but I have to admit that it would really suck to have NO gaming store in Miami. That's why I know I have to compromise. I disagree that we can all "ban together" to browbeat Joel into...well...into what? We can't make him get a larger venue, or fix an AC unless he has the money for it.

Do I still feel we should look into having other play venues? Yes. I don't like having all my eggs in one basket, and I too have been annoyed that there was a Magic tournament when I wanted to get a game in.

Well spoken. You summed it all up. We want the world, but want to give nothing back in return. Simply sitting in the store and breathing doesn't pay Joels bills. Ask Israel if that method worked. By the way he put a brand new AC in a few days ago.

Well said Andre

Kudos, to Andre, for your presentation of the facts and being fair.

Ovich, no problem buddy, I am not thin skin, wether in jest, fustration or insult (not that I am claiming thats what you meant), anybody at anytime can say anything to me and I will take as is and make my decision on how to respond which I think is approiate at that time.

I just get fustrated at times when I see all of these disscussions on this forum and I think, "well do something if it bothers you that much". This is not directed to any one person, it applies to everyone who complains and does nothing to invoke change.

Talk must be combine with action or nothing changes.

I live be my words, and act on my believe.

I know I am not the most pleasant, happy person to deal with, I am trying to improve. So if I upset you, I am truly sorry, my intent is never to upset you. Again this is direct at no one in particular.

Unless you are an asshole, then the gloves are off. Any if you are pussy and want to hide behind this PUBLIC forum then don't say shit.

JerryB