RANT: We need venue alternatives!

Yeah, easiest thing would be to call a guy- talk to them- and they may come out for free just to take a look at it. It's probably the tonnage on the condenser can't make up for the extra footage. Those Mitsubishi air conditioners are really easy on the electric bill though.

When I work its for my Uncle's Air company. As I was the thinnest guy there I was always the one to go up in the attics and crawlspaces, shitsux

Hmm...

Well Erik, you could always just buy a fan or two and put it in the room itself?

Sometimes that works.

I told Joel years ago that the League thing was a bad idea and you will lose customers.

I notice a dramatic drop in attendance with WotR when Joel started the League. I saw a lot of "What the Fuck" expressions (at least that's how I see jaw droping and eyes poping) when I had to explain the League. I felt like frog shit. Some player never showed up after that.

I agree with Vycem's point that players who win constantly get to stuff my cash in their pockets and I will eventually get some crumbs down the line. I can count on ONE hand how many times I have won in 3 YEARS playing FOW, 40K, Fantasy AND WotR. Do I suck, sure no agurment, but to have pay on top of that, really rubs me wrong. It really can discourage a player. It is a bad method and system.

However, I also understand Joel has to find methods to generate revenue. And he has spent a ton of money on terrain and he does lose money on players who buy on Ebay and the Web stores. And all of the current alternatives (Elk, FIU, players home) can and will be inconsistant.

I believe some kind of middle ground can be achieved. Get rid of the League thing, beside thats what tournaments are for. Have a flat rate or a monthly subscription. Call what it is, rental and he can keep it all instead of store credit but just change less.

Example you pay say $20.00 $15.00 bucks a month rental/use fee and that gives you unlimited use regardless of the gaming system. Or you pay a daily rate $2.00 rental/use one time for that day only, and that gives unlimited use. All this depends of course on what is going on or was schedule. So if you show up on Saturday and Sunshine is having a 40K tournament, you will not be able to play BattleMech (neat little plug there). But on Monday that same week at around 2:00 PM you and friend have the same day off, you both throw in your two bucks and play until Joel throws you out, no League, no credit, no bother. Joel keeps all four dollars to offset his cost. Now that sounds better to me.

What do you think, fair, better?

Any suggestions?

JerryB

Jerry, (and Bill) , you gotta compare 1 venue to another, not 1 venue to another activity.

Does Tates, War and Pieces, or Legends have a pay to play policy on casual gaming? Does Colliseum of Comics in Orlando? If the answer is Yes, than I stand corrected and conversation over. If the answer is NO, then what Joel is doing goes against the industry standard ..

If he's low on sales, then he should look to see what those stores do to increase sales instead of making his customers pay for playing at his store. You're making it seem like he'S being so generous about buying gaming boards and such... THATS WHAT HE'S SUPPOSED TO DO TO ATTRACT PEOPLE TO HIS STORE.

Also, remember the whole big speil, Jerry, about wanting to increase casual gaming in order to generate more interest in the game. The fact that tournaments were fine, but don't allow new players to learn.? Well charging people to play in the store, won't exactly encourage new gamers. People are going to say what Endre's saying " you mean I just bought 150$ worth of merchandise from you and now I have to pay you 2 bucks every time I want to use the stuff? "

Cesar and I were playing a game of fantasy the other day and a new guy comes in and wants to learn about the game. Now I'm fine with someone watching us and explaining the game to him as we go along... But Joel comes over and says, he guys, can you take some time during your game to explain the game to this guy cause he's interested in playing. I felt like saying " OK, I'll do that for you, and then you can give me my 2 fucking dollars back. "

I tell you , this is the kind of shit that gets people pissed off and sooner than later he's going to find himself in the same situation he did a year ago, with a new store opening up right in his back yard.

Paying to play is Gay.

Man! i don't come to the forums for a day or two and BOOM!! This shit gets all crazy!!! LoL


See guys this is why World of Warcraft or even Warhammer Online is better then gaming stores...you get all your buddies, decide on a faction and Boom! Everyone loads in and you get what you pay for 15 bucks a month log on at your own disrection and hang out on Vent and bullshit the day/afternoon/night away.

Hell you could even lan up at someones house and pull random all-nighters or even just show up for the day...Meh shameless WoW plug is what this is...BTW My guild is looking for Healers.

Alliance on "The Forgotten Coast"

--Cesar

One of the major components that I don't think anyone has addressed, which is more of an argument for Stephan and Co, is the issue of multiple game systems.

If you go and play just 1 game, then your ok. But when your like me and bring multiple games on a single day, I have to pay $2 PER GAME SYSTEM. So if on a Sunday I bring my FOW, Fantasy, and WoTR and play 1 of each game, I'm technically paying $6 instead of $2, since I'm paying for each game systems league fee.


Jerry, while I see a good idea for a monthly fee, the problem is that people will not be game if they don't get to play that often. I think the daily flat rate of $2 is the best of the world, and perhaps if people want the option for a league fee then go for it.

The only portion of it that bothers me is the $2 per game system. I don't mind spending $2, but I do mind paying per game system.

How much money does he actually make off the 2$ thing anyway?

Three cases:

#1. Two players play 1 game:
20pts, 10pts each.
It would take each of them 20 days to earn 200 pts.
Each player pays 40$ to earn 30$ in store credit.
80$ paid, 60$ store credit

#2. Two players play 2 games:
40pts, 20pts each.
It would take each of them 10 days to earn 200pts.
Each player pays 20$ to earn 30$ Store credit.
40$ paid, 60$ store credit.

#3. Two players play 3 games:
60pts, 30 pts each.
It would take each of them 6.66 days to earn 200pts.
Each player pays 13.333$ to earn 30$ Store credit.
26.666$ paid, 60$ store credit.

In case #1 there is clear profit being made. The only problem is that it is over a 20 day period. Even then, that 20day period is not likely 20days in a row and however more likely it is over the course of several months. What is likely 40$ profit over the course of months is not very profitable, especially after you factor in case #2 and #3.

In case #2 there is far less profit, if any, being made. 20$ for 30$ store credit.

In case #3 there is, probably, loss.

How much does GW charge retailers for merchandise?

Has anyone tried telling him "no thanks Joel, i dont want the game to count towards the league play" ?
and not pay the $2 bucks ?

luis the young wrote:Has anyone tried telling him "no thanks Joel, i dont want the game to count towards the league play" ?
and not pay the $2 bucks ?

LMAO...holy fuck i just broke out laughing at the computer such a random post.

You can go ahead and be the Guinea Pig Luis let the masse's know how it went!


--Cesar

Dan is completely right, the system really gets messed up when u factor in multiple types of games, i know quite a few people that will now only play fantasy on Wednesdays (which is supposed to be 40k night) only b/c we don't want to pay the extra $2 for 40k

Actually Luis, if you read my previous posts.... that's my whole beef. Joel demands 2 dollars to play casually WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

Chris... how much money he makes is not the point, same reason why the fact that it's 2 dollars is not the point.

Chris, while your statistics make sense, your missing an important point.

The store credit he is giving away he purchased WHOLE SALE. I imagine his deal (being a partner store and all that jazz) were probably looking at 60% (just for kicks, I don't know what it is but it could be less).

So, if Joel is getting 40% of every transaction, but he's getting 100% of each of your $2 transactions, he's winning big time. Mind you, he's still charging you full price on the Store Credit, so what may seem like $30 for a box set, Joel only paid $20 for.

With that in mind, in every situation you mentioned, Joel makes money. He obviously makes less if people go on winning streaks, but he probably banks on other players coming in and slowing down the win streak to keep everything normal.

At least thats how I understand it to work.

Wholesale prices for GW merchandise are much, much, much lower than 50% of retail value.

Much, much lower.

Much.

We're getting shafted, guys. All we need for a 'consistent' crowd is a new, agreed-upon location, some terrain, and some organization via boards.

If the space you get at FIU is actually free, Then your chances of having a good gaming club will definitely go up.

We attempted to do it at the ELKS lodge last year. There was more space and you could get really cheap alchohol at the lodge for those who like to drink. But there were some A/C issues at first, which I think soured some people.

But the part that made it unviable was the cost to rent. It was only 30 bucks for the night. But when you only had 5 or 6 people showing up, each person is shelling out 5 or 6 bucks to play. That ain't cool either.

But I really liked the camraderie, and of course the ability to guzzle beer while playing my favorite games. !

While you may not have the beer at FIU, if the there's no cost, you should be good to go. I'd go, that's for sure.

Well, I am pretty sure that you can tell him No, but he will take back the 20% discount on the merchandise. That might not matter to some people though.

Well Nick, sounds like you should look into it and pick a day and/or time. If next weekend would work at all, I know Joel's got Magic thingy on that Saturday again.

Last time I checked the GW retail discount is 45%, so with the 20% discount we all get he only makes 25% profit on models.

As I said all along and as Chris has now pointed out - you are more than likely to get it all of your league fees back in free stuff. It is more sale stimulus. At full retail cost joel has a bit more profit margin, but it is not more than a couple of $ difference.

W&P and Tate's are both supported by comic sales. Tate's wife also has 2 business ventures.

Both of those sotres are also much bigger and much nicer. I'd pay a $5 table fee to play at either one if they asked me to. Business is business. Right now Joel is the only option for the Dade county gamers and if I have to give him $2 to play in order for him to stay in business I'll do that.

I'll once again point out that your entire argument is based on the fee name. You both already admitted that if he charged you a $2 table fee you'd pay it. So think of it this way..... you can pay a $2 table fee or a $2 league fee which includes free table use and earns you points twords free stuff.

All I'm saying is this, how much profit can he really be making off charging 2$ to play?

What he really needs is people to -want- to play there all the time. The more he has people in the store the more they're going to want to buy and the more people are going to be likely to start any given game. I'm just questioning why he'd -want- to charge 2$ to play.

I never said that I'd agree to pay a table fee Bill, that was Andre.

I just don't like it man. I'm used going into a place to game, and not have a guy hovering around me asking me for 2 dollars.

That's the way it was at A.D., that's the way it was at the Dragon, and most importantly, that's the way it used to be at Sunshine... until now.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

What I say or present is not cannon. I am at odds with Joel constantly. Any complaints I have (and I repeat them daily to him when I see him) I say to Joel's face. Just last night I pointed that out to Joel on my way out and Frantic and his brother are a witness.

Does Tate's offer a 20% discount, no.
Does War & Over price (oh, wait that's Outlandish) offer 20% discount, no.
Don't forget that math.

I suggested a $2.00 flat rate for the day regardless of how many games you play or what type. So you could come in play a couple of games of WotR, Ogre and BattelTech (shameless plugs) time permitting and just pay two dollars. Joel could pocket the whole thing so he could charge less ($2.00 a day/session instead $2.00 per game type). The monthly subscrition could be workout for even greater savings. So if you game say three times a week ($6.00 using the preposed rate) 4 to 5 weeks a month, $20 or $15.00 dollars a month would save you more. This be an option and not mandatory, if it work out to you benifit.

All of the above again is just a suggestions.

I have asked Joel about NOT paying, I would lose my discount.

Bill is correct, Joel's cost on GW is 45%. I know someone who used to have a store (no not Izzy). And that is just for GW. I do not know his cost on other products. However, having been in computers sales, generally speaking the cost is typically 50% manufature suggested retail.

JerryB

W&P doesn't carry GW anymore.

Also the wholesale price of GW figs starts around 44-45% and you get further discounts on the larger your orders your account makes. But MUCH more than 50% is not happening.

Gaming in general average wholesale pricing hovers around 40-45% off retail, it's not a big money making business when you factor in all the inventory you have to keep.

Is Sunshine the only game store in Miami nowadays? I only ever go to the place if I'm down in the area and want to pick up some FOW

W&P doesn't carry GW but they will still let you play 2warhammer if there is room.

All is not well in the miniature gaming world....of south florida...

OK LISTEN UP!!!

everybody has good points here. when i used to play in orlando, over at scifi city i didn't have to pay to play but i didn't get any %off merchandise if i would win constantly. They did have however the option to join a leage with standings and prices at the end of each month, also they would host a tournament ALMOST every month. then again scifi city its a much bigger store than joel's. i understand how some of you guys feel about having to pay to play and well at the end of the day it comes down to this:
If you don't have a store to play in, then there wont be any tournaments or nowhere to play them in and if what joel needs to stay open its for us to pay 2 dollars when ever we play then so be it.

IS IT FAIR???????

maybe or maybe not, it all comes down to prespective. I personally loose alot and in order for others not to pocket my money all i can do its try to get better. Anyhow if you don't want to pay to play, then you only have the alternatives of driving to another store or going play in somebody's house.

Well consider this. I live now in NYC and here there's two gaming stores: a GW one and another gaming store that only meets ONCE A WEEK on thrusdays, twice maybe on saturdays. Every other day they close the store at 6 pm and there is NO GAMING. Also, the store is closed on sundays. YAY?! NO FAIL.

Also this store offers 0% discount and its 5 US dollars to play. Lame is correct...

Joel's is fine in my book. You guys have to settle for you grass being way green and quit your bitching. You bitch about Joel's heat/ac issues, Izzy's stupid kid playing drums/dance dance revogay, and Eric's mancave being stuffy.

I wish I was in Miami. I have gamed once in New York and it was in the GW store which offers 0% discount and has stupid asshole redshirts telling you that your move was a bad one. Just because they work for GW doesn't mean they're strategists. It's fucking bullshit and they have three 4x4 tables which are always full of shit. And one store in all new york too.

The best store's I've seen are the Battle Bunker in Baltimore and Sci-fi city in Orlando which have a lot of gaming tables. Joel's is always open, and late to boot, and you win shit with the miserable 2 dollar entry fee.

When Izzy opened his store people became mad gay about "thats guys a a fag" and "i dont like dirty cops" which was 100% bullshit. What a useless schism. And then Izzy closed shop and all the dissenters had to eat their words. Joel is here to stay, he has a lot of selection ALWAYS, and he offers a discount. When you shop online you almost never get that percentage unless you buy used.

~Alfred

PS> I miss all of you guys except max, who's gay as balls.